A95L BFI is Amazing but What’s Happening?
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A95L BFI is Amazing but What’s Happening?
The A95L allows for BFI to be engaged at 120hz and it looks fantastic. My question is what’s going on? I am using an Xbox Series X set to 4K 120FPS. In game I still get the option in games that support it to set them up at 120 FPS with BFI engaged. Definitely looks better than 120 FPS native and appears to be 4ms persistence. The actual look and feel looks like 120 FPS. In addition I’m able to engage VRR at the same time on the TV and the console switches into VRR when I engage it but I clearly still see the BFI. Anyone have any clue what’s going on with this set? I thought it only had BFI at 60hz and BFI should straight up be incompatible with VRR so I’m thoroughly confused.
Re: A95L BFI is Amazing but What’s Happening?
Can you connect it to a PC outputting 120hz and check with testufo?
No OLED since 2021 is reported to support 120hz BFI, let alone in conjunction with VRR.
Because it is significantly brighter than the LG CX/GX (nearly double on a 2% window), it would be a game changer if the A95L could reach 4ms MPRT at 120hz.
No OLED since 2021 is reported to support 120hz BFI, let alone in conjunction with VRR.
Because it is significantly brighter than the LG CX/GX (nearly double on a 2% window), it would be a game changer if the A95L could reach 4ms MPRT at 120hz.
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Re: A95L BFI is Amazing but What’s Happening?
So I tested it with a PC and indeed at 120 HZ BFI is engaged and I’m seeing 4 ms of persistence on the 120 fps UFO.
VRR is peculiar in the fact that it drops the UFO test to 60 regardless of BFI being engaged or not. Does the UFO test bugged when VRR is engaged? I’m using Edge as my browser. I’m positive my TV is still outputting 120 and the picture dims when I turn on BFI but I can’t be certain VRR is actually engaged without testing on a game with tearing. Maybe I’ll try Elden Ring on my XSX. Regardless it appears to me BFI is working with 4 ms of persistence at 120 hz which I don’t believe was true when the TV launched. I have to believe a firmware update provided this functionality. Sony is notoriously bad at providing clear notes with their updates other than “general performance updates” so I’m guessing this was stealth added.
VRR is peculiar in the fact that it drops the UFO test to 60 regardless of BFI being engaged or not. Does the UFO test bugged when VRR is engaged? I’m using Edge as my browser. I’m positive my TV is still outputting 120 and the picture dims when I turn on BFI but I can’t be certain VRR is actually engaged without testing on a game with tearing. Maybe I’ll try Elden Ring on my XSX. Regardless it appears to me BFI is working with 4 ms of persistence at 120 hz which I don’t believe was true when the TV launched. I have to believe a firmware update provided this functionality. Sony is notoriously bad at providing clear notes with their updates other than “general performance updates” so I’m guessing this was stealth added.
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Re: A95L BFI is Amazing but What’s Happening?
Probably my last response since I’m just replying to myself here haha. For anyone interested I’ve been rolling with BFI on now for a bit and there’s no turning back. I’ve had a few LG OLEDs in the past and BFI was always a no go due to loss in brightness, flicker, weird black crush and general dimming of colors. This TV not only keeps enough brightness for HDR to still look outstanding but there’s zero noticeable flicker even on all white screens. Color looks amazing too! An absolute no brainer for SDR content and I believe for HDR too. Basically rocking the brightness of like an LG C series OLED with BFI turned on and the motion clarity especially for 60 FPS content is outstanding. I can’t recommend this display enough if you value motion resolution with minimal loss in brightness.
Re: A95L BFI is Amazing but What’s Happening?
Well I'm glad to hear your report.
I wonder what the panel's native refresh rate truly is.
Like, if it's literal black frame insertion, then one would assume the panel is 240hz native and it's a shame Sony doesn't have a good frame-generation mode like Samsung's.
If on the contrary it is some sort of rolling scan like the old LGs that allow 120hz BFI, then it's a shame that the only option is 50% window.
But I'll be checking the reviews on this year's model with great attention.
Edit: have you checked the MPRT at 60hz with interpolation cranked to the max?
I wonder what the panel's native refresh rate truly is.
Like, if it's literal black frame insertion, then one would assume the panel is 240hz native and it's a shame Sony doesn't have a good frame-generation mode like Samsung's.
If on the contrary it is some sort of rolling scan like the old LGs that allow 120hz BFI, then it's a shame that the only option is 50% window.
But I'll be checking the reviews on this year's model with great attention.
Edit: have you checked the MPRT at 60hz with interpolation cranked to the max?
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Re: A95L BFI is Amazing but What’s Happening?
I have an LG CX and kept it because of the BFI. I always keep it on and I managed to make it quite bright for my usecase.Duke Nukem wrote: ↑08 Jan 2025, 13:17Probably my last response since I’m just replying to myself here haha. For anyone interested I’ve been rolling with BFI on now for a bit and there’s no turning back. I’ve had a few LG OLEDs in the past and BFI was always a no go due to loss in brightness, flicker, weird black crush and general dimming of colors. This TV not only keeps enough brightness for HDR to still look outstanding but there’s zero noticeable flicker even on all white screens. Color looks amazing too! An absolute no brainer for SDR content and I believe for HDR too. Basically rocking the brightness of like an LG C series OLED with BFI turned on and the motion clarity especially for 60 FPS content is outstanding. I can’t recommend this display enough if you value motion resolution with minimal loss in brightness.
Are you saying the 60hz has the same motion clarity as 120hz with BFI on?
CX looks the same on both 60hz and 120hz with BFI on but 60hz is more dim and it flickers.
Re: A95L BFI is Amazing but What’s Happening?
Uh, there is a noticeable difference in BFI performance between 60hz and 120hz in the LG GX/CX.cgeorgiu wrote: ↑18 Jan 2025, 08:04I have an LG CX and kept it because of the BFI. I always keep it on and I managed to make it quite bright for my usecase.
Are you saying the 60hz has the same motion clarity as 120hz with BFI on?
CX looks the same on both 60hz and 120hz with BFI on but 60hz is more dim and it flickers.
At 60hz, only Motion Pro High works correctly because it can strobe at 60hz. Low/Medium only strobe at 120hz and therefore produce image duplicates when outputting 60hz.
Medium doubles the motion clarity, meaning you have 240hz sample & hold equivalent at 120hz, and High quadruples the motion clarity, giving you 240hz sample & hold equivalent at 60hz and 480hz sample & hold equivalent at 120hz.
I'm not sure what is the factor for Motion Pro Low and auto, I guess Low is about a 25% increase, which may be a good compromise for 120fps HDR games.
If what OP is reporting is true, we would have 240hz equivalent at 120hz, so exactly like the GX/CX Motion Pro Medium setting, but on a much, much brighter panel than GX/CX or even the EVO G1, so it would be an interesting tradeoff for sure...
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Asus PG27VQ - Asus PG278QR - Sony FW900 - Iiyama HM204DT - Mitsubishi 2070SB
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Re: A95L BFI is Amazing but What’s Happening?
On the LG CX there is no difference between 60hz and 120hz in motion clarity. I can see that using the ufo test.JimProfit wrote: ↑18 Jan 2025, 19:14Uh, there is a noticeable difference in BFI performance between 60hz and 120hz in the LG GX/CX.cgeorgiu wrote: ↑18 Jan 2025, 08:04I have an LG CX and kept it because of the BFI. I always keep it on and I managed to make it quite bright for my usecase.
Are you saying the 60hz has the same motion clarity as 120hz with BFI on?
CX looks the same on both 60hz and 120hz with BFI on but 60hz is more dim and it flickers.
At 60hz, only Motion Pro High works correctly because it can strobe at 60hz. Low/Medium only strobe at 120hz and therefore produce image duplicates when outputting 60hz.
Medium doubles the motion clarity, meaning you have 240hz sample & hold equivalent at 120hz, and High quadruples the motion clarity, giving you 240hz sample & hold equivalent at 60hz and 480hz sample & hold equivalent at 120hz.
I'm not sure what is the factor for Motion Pro Low and auto, I guess Low is about a 25% increase, which may be a good compromise for 120fps HDR games.
If what OP is reporting is true, we would have 240hz equivalent at 120hz, so exactly like the GX/CX Motion Pro Medium setting, but on a much, much brighter panel than GX/CX or even the EVO G1, so it would be an interesting tradeoff for sure...
LG C1 was downgraded and and looks different at 60hz. At 60 it was inferior to CX.
I compared C1 and CX side by side with 60hz content and it was night and day.
I see from your profile you have a GX and a G1. If you can, compare them at 60hz.
Since you said 120hz motion pro setting medium I am assuming you are writing about the C1, The CX has a high setting for 120hz as well.
Re: A95L BFI is Amazing but What’s Happening?
OK so I did some testing on both my 55GX and 65G1, namely various UFOtest game motion at high speed, without stutters, verified 100% scaling, making sure the top part is set at 120fps, but mostly looking at the bottom part that matches the screen's refresh.
Both TVs were set to Game Mode so interpolation is not a factor at all.
It's sometimes hard to see unscaled small pixels moving very fast, especially with the flickering at 60hz high, but one particularly good test is the city map with the larger @openstreetmaps.org at the bottom.
I can ascertain the following:
On my G1, there is a clear difference between 60hz MP High and 120hz MP High.
The Motion Pro High on the G1 operates at a ~38% window at both refresh, resulting in a ~158hz and ~316hz sample & hold equivalent respectively. MP Low and Short are not meant for 60hz as it results in image duplication.
At 120hz, there is a noticeable difference between Medium and High. Medium is assumed to be operating at a 50% window and only at 120hz resulting in a 4ms MPRT/240hz sample & hold equivalent or 4ms MPRT (it works at 60hz and lower, with interpolation cranked to max to reach fake 120fps, otherwise it has image duplication). On the G1, 120hz MP Medium still looks clearer than 60hz MP High.
On my GX however, I had a bit of a harder time, the 60hz MP High image being so dramatically darker and flickery-er than on the G1.
I did ended up noticing some differences between 60hz High and 120hz High though.
At 60hz MP High, there is an obvious x4 clarity multiplier (rolling scan on a 25% window, resulting in a 4ms MPRT/240hz sample & hold equivalent) => at 240 pixels/second, the UFO appears perfectly sharp. As with the G1, MP Low and Medium are not recommended at 60hz.
At 120hz, I observed the following things: There is a difference between MP Medium and MP High.
To my eyes, 120hz MP Medium looks as sharp as 60hz MP High, perfectly clear UFO at 240 pixels/sec. AND, in many of the aforementioned game motion tests, I could see an improvement at 120hz High especially around some text.
However, I'd be lying if I said this look like a +100% improvement over Medium, therefore I cannot ascertain that it is 2ms MPRT/480hz equivalent (though the UFO still appears sharp to me at 480 pixels/second).
So I don't know what is going on with 120hz MP High. It seems so much brighter than 60hz MP High, could it be that the rolling scan window height is lower at 120hz, perhaps matching the G1 120hz MP High mode?
I will need to do further testing on the GX when my eyes are less tired, on the G1 it's more of an open and shut case.
I bought both sets when they were already discontinued after seeing the deep dive videos made by Ariel of PlasmaTVForGaming on YouTube.
I always viewed it as such. The GX with ABL disabled basically slightly outperforms plasma TVs at 60hz and is best suited for SDR content.
The G1, being naturally a bit brighter, and with a less aggressive BFI mode, is a better compromise for HDR gaming with BFI on.
Both TVs were set to Game Mode so interpolation is not a factor at all.
It's sometimes hard to see unscaled small pixels moving very fast, especially with the flickering at 60hz high, but one particularly good test is the city map with the larger @openstreetmaps.org at the bottom.
I can ascertain the following:
On my G1, there is a clear difference between 60hz MP High and 120hz MP High.
The Motion Pro High on the G1 operates at a ~38% window at both refresh, resulting in a ~158hz and ~316hz sample & hold equivalent respectively. MP Low and Short are not meant for 60hz as it results in image duplication.
At 120hz, there is a noticeable difference between Medium and High. Medium is assumed to be operating at a 50% window and only at 120hz resulting in a 4ms MPRT/240hz sample & hold equivalent or 4ms MPRT (it works at 60hz and lower, with interpolation cranked to max to reach fake 120fps, otherwise it has image duplication). On the G1, 120hz MP Medium still looks clearer than 60hz MP High.
On my GX however, I had a bit of a harder time, the 60hz MP High image being so dramatically darker and flickery-er than on the G1.
I did ended up noticing some differences between 60hz High and 120hz High though.
At 60hz MP High, there is an obvious x4 clarity multiplier (rolling scan on a 25% window, resulting in a 4ms MPRT/240hz sample & hold equivalent) => at 240 pixels/second, the UFO appears perfectly sharp. As with the G1, MP Low and Medium are not recommended at 60hz.
At 120hz, I observed the following things: There is a difference between MP Medium and MP High.
To my eyes, 120hz MP Medium looks as sharp as 60hz MP High, perfectly clear UFO at 240 pixels/sec. AND, in many of the aforementioned game motion tests, I could see an improvement at 120hz High especially around some text.
However, I'd be lying if I said this look like a +100% improvement over Medium, therefore I cannot ascertain that it is 2ms MPRT/480hz equivalent (though the UFO still appears sharp to me at 480 pixels/second).
So I don't know what is going on with 120hz MP High. It seems so much brighter than 60hz MP High, could it be that the rolling scan window height is lower at 120hz, perhaps matching the G1 120hz MP High mode?
I will need to do further testing on the GX when my eyes are less tired, on the G1 it's more of an open and shut case.
I bought both sets when they were already discontinued after seeing the deep dive videos made by Ariel of PlasmaTVForGaming on YouTube.
I always viewed it as such. The GX with ABL disabled basically slightly outperforms plasma TVs at 60hz and is best suited for SDR content.
The G1, being naturally a bit brighter, and with a less aggressive BFI mode, is a better compromise for HDR gaming with BFI on.
LG OLED65G1 - LG OLED55GX - Panasonic 58EX780E - Pioneer KRP500A - Sony D24E1WE (ooo) - Toshiba 288DF
Asus PG27VQ - Asus PG278QR - Sony FW900 - Iiyama HM204DT - Mitsubishi 2070SB
Asus PG27VQ - Asus PG278QR - Sony FW900 - Iiyama HM204DT - Mitsubishi 2070SB
Re: A95L BFI is Amazing but What’s Happening?
On my LG CX at 60Hz, anything other than BFI set to High doesn't look good, it just duplicates frames. At this refresh rate, I was able to double the brightness by keeping HDR enabled at all times, applying tone mapping, setting Dynamic Tone Mapping to "On," and adjusting brightness to 54 to mitigate black crush. This applies to 120hz as well and with HDR and 120hz, it really bright in a complete dark room even with max BFI.JimProfit wrote: ↑20 Jan 2025, 11:47OK so I did some testing on both my 55GX and 65G1, namely various UFOtest game motion at high speed, without stutters, verified 100% scaling, making sure the top part is set at 120fps, but mostly looking at the bottom part that matches the screen's refresh.
Both TVs were set to Game Mode so interpolation is not a factor at all.
It's sometimes hard to see unscaled small pixels moving very fast, especially with the flickering at 60hz high, but one particularly good test is the city map with the larger @openstreetmaps.org at the bottom.
I can ascertain the following:
On my G1, there is a clear difference between 60hz MP High and 120hz MP High.
The Motion Pro High on the G1 operates at a ~38% window at both refresh, resulting in a ~158hz and ~316hz sample & hold equivalent respectively. MP Low and Short are not meant for 60hz as it results in image duplication.
At 120hz, there is a noticeable difference between Medium and High. Medium is assumed to be operating at a 50% window and only at 120hz resulting in a 4ms MPRT/240hz sample & hold equivalent or 4ms MPRT (it works at 60hz and lower, with interpolation cranked to max to reach fake 120fps, otherwise it has image duplication). On the G1, 120hz MP Medium still looks clearer than 60hz MP High.
On my GX however, I had a bit of a harder time, the 60hz MP High image being so dramatically darker and flickery-er than on the G1.
I did ended up noticing some differences between 60hz High and 120hz High though.
At 60hz MP High, there is an obvious x4 clarity multiplier (rolling scan on a 25% window, resulting in a 4ms MPRT/240hz sample & hold equivalent) => at 240 pixels/second, the UFO appears perfectly sharp. As with the G1, MP Low and Medium are not recommended at 60hz.
At 120hz, I observed the following things: There is a difference between MP Medium and MP High.
To my eyes, 120hz MP Medium looks as sharp as 60hz MP High, perfectly clear UFO at 240 pixels/sec. AND, in many of the aforementioned game motion tests, I could see an improvement at 120hz High especially around some text.
However, I'd be lying if I said this look like a +100% improvement over Medium, therefore I cannot ascertain that it is 2ms MPRT/480hz equivalent (though the UFO still appears sharp to me at 480 pixels/second).
So I don't know what is going on with 120hz MP High. It seems so much brighter than 60hz MP High, could it be that the rolling scan window height is lower at 120hz, perhaps matching the G1 120hz MP High mode?
I will need to do further testing on the GX when my eyes are less tired, on the G1 it's more of an open and shut case.
I bought both sets when they were already discontinued after seeing the deep dive videos made by Ariel of PlasmaTVForGaming on YouTube.
I always viewed it as such. The GX with ABL disabled basically slightly outperforms plasma TVs at 60hz and is best suited for SDR content.
The G1, being naturally a bit brighter, and with a less aggressive BFI mode, is a better compromise for HDR gaming with BFI on.
When running this test at 720 pixels per second instead of 960: https://www.testufo.com/framerates#count=3&pps=720, the UFO remains clear, and I can distinguish details such as the eyes and white elements of the ship with BFI set to High at both 60Hz and 120Hz. The level of detail appears identical between these two refresh rates.
On your LG G1, can you see the UFO clearly at this speed with BFI set to High at 60Hz and Medium at 120Hz?