Samsung Odyssey OLED G8 - 0.1ms (GTG), 175Hz

High Hz on OLED produce excellent strobeless motion blur reduction with fast GtG pixel response. It is easier to tell apart 60Hz vs 120Hz vs 240Hz on OLED than LCD, and more visible to mainstream. Includes WOLED and QD-OLED displays.
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speedhedgehog
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Samsung Odyssey OLED G8 - 0.1ms (GTG), 175Hz

Post by speedhedgehog » 19 Dec 2022, 23:22

https://www.samsung.com/sg/monitors/gam ... g850sexxs/

LTT talked about this today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR-1tMih0fM

Looking forward to hearing what the actual response time is (not GTG/padded numbers). Will I finally have a modern display to drool over as a replacement for my CRT? I'd like to play games on a proper widescreen monitor again, but as long as the CRT is on my desk, I just can't bring myself to launch games on my "main" VA monitor.

I'd love to plug my PS5 into this thing, too...

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Re: Samsung Odyssey OLED G8 - 0.1ms (GTG), 175Hz

Post by RealNC » 20 Dec 2022, 00:34

speedhedgehog wrote:
19 Dec 2022, 23:22
Will I finally have a modern display to drool over as a replacement for my CRT?
Aren't OLEDs currently still buffering at least a full frame? Or is this only happening in HDR mode? Not sure. A full frame of added latency is currently a deal breaker for me.
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Futuretech
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Re: Samsung Odyssey OLED G8 - 0.1ms (GTG), 175Hz

Post by Futuretech » 20 Dec 2022, 18:19

In OLED GTG is a valid measurement more so than LCD(As Mr. Rehjon[CBB] states LCD emulation mode to test and compare LCD and OLED timings) as a matter of fact it would behoove manufacturers on lying about Grey-to-Grey time in fact using it as a marketing term becomes a truer measurement of consumer relations. Unlike LCDs the GTG measurement is a little bit more useful and quite accurate.

Remember the main point. Pixel time ON/OFF and Colors.

The ON/OFF timer for the pixels is at max 0.01ms response time. (1000/0.01) = 100,000Hz or 10 microseconds. Most if not all OLEDs fire pixels on/off even faster than LCD or CRT combined. Electron beam is nice and all but solid-state > digital/analog systems.

The response time of 0.1 is accurate for GTG properties. (1000/0.1) = 10,000z or 100 microseconds.

This panel seems a bit slower than the other GTG panel released a bit ago at 0.03ms. (1000/0.03) = 33,333.3Hz

So the GTG time can be improved. I believe it might even not behoove manufacturers to build the GTG and Color property towards the maximum speed of organic electro-luminescent(Organic EL) display or OLED to fire off at the pixel time. I'm sure future GTG/Color timings will reach 0.01ms or the maximum time in which OLED actuates.

The only other potential variable property is the very pixel organic matter both the organic EL substance, Deuterium(OLED-EX for LG), Quantum Dot, Perskovite, Perskovite Quantum Dot. And if anyone develops their own Deuterium based OLED or LG pushes the boundaries combine Deuterium with PQD. PQDP-OLED.

Right now for colors think of OLED without quantum dots as a sexy high/ultra high end IPS panel imagine the old Nec WUXI 2490-series that is one of the best 1200P 24inch monitors ever released for non-gaming activities even for gaming it was reasonable.

https://hardforum.com/threads/nec-2490w ... y.1396129/

https://nec2490.blogspot.com/

One of the few LCDs to contain a A-TW polarizer or Advanced True-Wide polarizer. Only recently as of the last three months has A-TW come to LCD yet again. I'm actually surprised if LCDs are still being sold that IPS/TN/and VA don't receive the same benefits. A-TW are expensive as only one company was manufacturing them. But hopefully now that it is back it can be scaled down.

OLED with Quantum dots despite the subpixel changes and not having Aperture Grille style RGB stripped to maximize content area. It would look much better than IPS. For example Apple released a few OLED panels for their smartphones. They aren't really all that OMG wow because the color isn't all that spectacular it pops in the darkness or near darkness but even a monitor of IPS can look nice like my Asus Proart because the proart is stretched over 24 inches plus I never heard of anyone calibrating their smartphone. I know we can measure the smartphone but I never heard of anyone calibrating the profile of the smartphone. Smartphone 3D LUT anyone? Lol

Anyways quantum dot really POP OLEDs biggest downfall is brightness but even people are saying the CRT closeness of 200-250nits is okay not bad. No one is really complaining except those that want higher SDR or HDR working. We are technically almost full release beta testing OLED. 2023 is going to be a revolutionary year for OLED and hopefully microled coming up the coattails as well.

A QD-OLED certainly has a pop to it due to the extra matter providing better depth of colors. But overall OLED looks worst case scenario a high or ultra high end IPS with spectacular blacks sometimes black depth can be misleading due to the polarizer filter. One of the polarizer filters messes with the black depth thus it looks a bit odd.

CRTs are something especially the high end ones. And CRTs are still going to kick ass for some. But OLED is catching up and quick. Like Mr. Rehjon said, "LCDs are still going to be engineered, researched, and made". In fact to add further to his comments cross-technological process i.e. mixing OLED with LCD. I'm sure something can be done to improve LCD. Some might ask why not kill the LCD. We pumped so much time, money, and effort into it that it's not going away at least not soon enough.

Think of the [H]ardOCP forum comment someone made. I mentioned this last year in my posting.

"LCD is the communism of technology. No matter how many times we try and kill it. It survives and comes back with newer and better tricks."

There are some LCDs that make them go toe-to-toe with OLED and even beat OLED in some areas. LCDs are the old school bully and OLED is the new kid on the block that is coming online with new and better capacity to fight back.

A little fisty cuff is going to help settle the score with LCD.

OLED Color wise:

Worst case scenario when people reviewed various LG panels from the past two or three years of panels.

Worst case ~5 millisecond color-to-color pixel lag on certain colors the 12-15% or less range of colors. Average response time of about 500-800 microseconds an order of magnitude lower.

5 = 4.2 to 4.5 millisecond faster than the worst color output in other words the millisecond drops to microsecond.

Best case scenario for the WOLED LG panels is about 200ish-300ish.

To simplify and coordinate.

Best: 0.2-0.3ish, Average: 0.5-0.8, worst:UP to 5 millisecond.

Even the almighty FW900 contains the old SMPTE phosphors that range anywhere from 2:milisecond 500FPS/500Hz MPRT to 3 millisecond or 333FPS/333HZ MPRT.

In other words on best case and average case these older OLED panels are operating at a magnitude faster than the FW900. Worst case scenario on about 13% of CtC transition just a hair faster to a hair slower than the mighty FW900.

Since the FW900 and a few rarities around where built with the last of the fastest phosphors 2ms-3ms. They never made the Ultra-Fast 2000fps/2000hz 500microsecond phosphors which would even go toe-to-toe with OLED.

There are a minority of people with high-end Plasma TVs such as Pioneer Elite Kuro. And some state their Plasma > OLED even if OLED > Plasma now a days since most people have never used a plasma and most people are using craptacular LCDs. Most people just buy whatever is pretty they don't do any research.

Anyways at this point in time the OLED panels should start slowly climbing up in speed. Already on/off is max but the transitions of GTG and CTC are a bit slower UP to the millisecond range but normally at the microsecond range.

I'm sure Mr. Rehjon can expand on this topic or any other in depth researcher who does his homework.

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Re: Samsung Odyssey OLED G8 - 0.1ms (GTG), 175Hz

Post by frunction » 31 Dec 2022, 20:24

Might be a small reason to not like a monitor, but that silver border...

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Re: Samsung Odyssey OLED G8 - 0.1ms (GTG), 175Hz

Post by GammaLyrae » 28 Feb 2023, 16:51

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/ ... sb-s34bg85

Looks like the 60hz performance leaves something to be desired, but here's preliminary results from rtings (it's "early" status at the time of this post, but the link will show the full review when it's ready)

A pleasant surprise is they support 60hz bfi. Looks like it's a 50% pulse width so motion clarity should be about equivalent to the LG C2 OLED TV with bfi on at 60hz. Couple of other ways to interpret it, 8ms mprt, 120hz motion equivalence, etc.

Shame it's not supported at higher refresh rates or with an adjustable width to another fraction multiplier of 60hz (like maybe 4ms MPRT, achievable if the panel was configured to be able to update at 240hz equivalent intervals). You can adjust the perceived brightness with it on, looks like at the settings they tested they measured 137 nits with it on. Pretty bright for use in a low light environment, which is probably necessary for the current known major drawback to QDOLED panels and blacks appearing to lift to Grey if the panel reflects light.

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Re: Samsung Odyssey OLED G8 - 0.1ms (GTG), 175Hz

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 02 Mar 2023, 01:58

Futuretech wrote:
20 Dec 2022, 18:19
The response time of 0.1 is accurate for GTG properties. (1000/0.1) = 10,000z or 100 microseconds.

This panel seems a bit slower than the other GTG panel released a bit ago at 0.03ms. (1000/0.03) = 33,333.3Hz
GtG and Hz are unlinked, though GtG faster than a refresh cycle helps the quality of the refresh rate.

You can have GtG slower than a refresh cycle, and GtG much faster than a refresh cycle.

Remember the old 33ms-50ms 60Hz panels and that was GtG90%. The real effective GtG0%->100% was literally 500 millisecond on some early laptop LCDs of the late 1980s and early 1990s -- the LCDs before the first active matrix laptop LCDs, especially. They just smeared into each other, despite smooth motion.

Some sites measure only GtG10->90%, and other sites measure GtG0%->100%. Apples vs bananas.

GtG is simply a pixel "fading" from one color to the next, and the fade is faster at different parts of the curves.

Image

Also, GtG between two very low-contrast colors are usually less important than GtG between two very high-contrast colors, so very slow GtG's for neardark transitions (e.g. slow OLED pixel transition from RGB(1,1,1) to RGB(0,0,0) is usually invisible to the eyes).

Perceptuals for GtG and MPRT vary quite a lot on a lot of variables, but the important thing is that bright colors need to have very rapid GtG, and that's where the OLEDs excel at.

OLED GtG is perceptually very fast because the terrible OLED GtG's are usually on the hard-to-see colors; like minor dim-grey ghosting that only occurs on dim colors much dimmer than VA greys. And some panels have it worse than others -- also OLEDs can also use overdrive algorithms too to speed up some of the pixel transitions.

Samsung QD-OLED and LG WOLED have their respective pros/cons.

BTW, text tuning is not as easy on WOLED and QD-OLED as on IPS LCD. Gaming-vs-office work percentage can sometimes tip scales to LG WOLED. If you need to do critical text work, LG WOLED is generally easier to fix text clarity problems on. Web designing and Visual Studio on low-pixel-density WOLED can feel preferable over low-pixel-density triangle-structure QD-OLED, especially if you're picky about excellent fringing-free black and white text.

Disclosure: I currently am on contract working with WOLEDs (LG tech). Blur Busters am working on a text clarity matters too.
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Re: Samsung Odyssey OLED G8 - 0.1ms (GTG), 175Hz

Post by Kokonoe » 27 Jun 2023, 05:39

Futuretech wrote:
20 Dec 2022, 18:19
"LCD is the communism of technology. No matter how many times we try and kill it. It survives and comes back with newer and better tricks."
What a nonsensical insertion of ill-informed politics in a topic about display tech. :roll:

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Re: Samsung Odyssey OLED G8 - 0.1ms (GTG), 175Hz

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 28 Jun 2023, 20:21

<aside>

To be fair -- while Blur Busters Forums rules is absolutely strictly "no government politics" -- I should point out that was a quote of a post on HardOCP, not Futuretech's own words.

I want to acknowledge that Futuretech did reasonably fairly and neutrally rebut the potential copypasta powderkeg, in a de-politicized way, that with acknowledgements of both LCD and OLED pros and cons. So it's OK within Blur Busters Forums rules as Futuretech did not politicize or partake on that other posters politics.

Just like most public tech media and personalities (from LTT to RTINGS to PCGamer to whomever etc), have no interest in letting members discuss or reveal political affilations/ideologies of the audience and just stick strictly to scientific tech talk and being educated about tech. The moderator team on this forum does remove post that contains any directions of the compass of direct government politics/ideologies/polarization/etc/PowderKegTron2000deluxe talk on Blur Busters Forums -- whether as commentary or an affiliation revelations. But forums do double as a Complaints Department (90% of most forums are people posting about problems, y'know!). Sometimes offtopicly, and when offtopic veers into, y'know, the powderkeg territory. It just distracts from the enjoyment of tech passion.

Public personalities in most technology youtubes/blogs/sites/forums/etc usually block politics and political advertisements from their very public venues, to avoid becoming involved with any explosive Pandora's Boxes. We are the same. But being a copy-and-pasted quotation, that was successfully dissected and defused nonpolitically by Futuretech. So all good.

Back to the regularly scheduled tech talk / replies. No further commentary involving government politics/ideologies/polarization/PowerKegTron2000deluxe/etc please.

</aside>
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