Has the upcoming LG G3 & Samsung S95C's BFI improved?

High Hz on OLED produce excellent strobeless motion blur reduction with fast GtG pixel response. It is easier to tell apart 60Hz vs 120Hz vs 240Hz on OLED than LCD, and more visible to mainstream. Includes WOLED and QD-OLED displays.
User avatar
NeonPizza
Posts: 64
Joined: 20 Oct 2021, 03:01

Has the upcoming LG G3 & Samsung S95C's BFI improved?

Post by NeonPizza » 17 Feb 2023, 01:12

Supposedly, last years LG G2's BFI jumped you up to 650p motion resolution with a 5ms persistence(Cutting down more than half the motion blur smacking the screen), as did the Samsung S95B(Could be wrong). The following above is comparable to 'average' plasma motion at 60fps when gaming. Just wondering if LG and Samsung have stepped up their game and increased the BFI HIGH motion resolution closer to 1080p(1080p BFI max SHOULD be standard, at least!) with a lower persistence.

Sigh. We've gone backwards. How long will it take for TV's to deliver and reclaim that epic 1ms persistence(Blur free like a CRT) with at least 1080p motion resolution, with good brightness, flicker that isn't noticeable on whites(think plasma-like) and with low input lag?

I've noticed on my LG C1, that 60hz BFI causes severe shadow detail crushing too. Probably could be corrected with a calibration somehow, but the picture is still too dark & dim which makes it unusable. the G3 & S95C are rumoured to be MUCH brighter, so you'd automatically think brighter BFI? But how much brighter.

At this point, gaming at 60fps(without BFI) on OLED for any title in first person or even 3rd person is horrific. Once you turn the screen from left to right, the environments turn to mushy hazey blur slathered on top of 300p MR, making you feel like you're gaming through the eyes of somebody who's drunk of their a**. Not enjoyable at all.

Ideally, gaming at 120fps makes a world of a difference in terms of cutting down half the amount of blur(etc), and 'then' using 120hz MotionPro Low....You can only have one free lunch on the C1, since Medium(which i hear is almost the equivalent of 240fps when gaming at 120) drains too much brightness. Maybe the G3 will have more gobs of brightness to spare and will actuallly make medium bright enough to be an option.

User avatar
PapaJuan
Posts: 15
Joined: 07 Jan 2023, 11:12

Re: Has the upcoming LG G3 & Samsung S95C's BFI improved?

Post by PapaJuan » 22 Feb 2023, 13:23

I work at a retailer that will be selling these TVs. According to one of the LG representatives, there will be no BFI module shipping in any of the new LG TVs. He didn't give me much information on it, but said something along the lines of "No one uses it so who cares". I wouldn't use this information as fact just yet, as I was not at the same meeting he was at when he heard this information.

User avatar
NeonPizza
Posts: 64
Joined: 20 Oct 2021, 03:01

Re: Has the upcoming LG G3 & Samsung S95C's BFI improved?

Post by NeonPizza » 03 Mar 2023, 17:05

PapaJuan wrote:
22 Feb 2023, 13:23
I work at a retailer that will be selling these TVs. According to one of the LG representatives, there will be no BFI module shipping in any of the new LG TVs. He didn't give me much information on it, but said something along the lines of "No one uses it so who cares". I wouldn't use this information as fact just yet, as I was not at the same meeting he was at when he heard this information.

Wait a second, so not even basic 60hz BFI? We're officially trapped at 300p with a lousy 16ms persistence? Wow!
I found out both LG and Samsung won't be including the '120hz' MotionPro Low, Medium, Auto & High settings. That's disappointing. There's way too much focus on HDR brightness, nits this, nits that, when motion, OLED's achilles heal continues to be swept under the rug.

Give me at least 1080p motion resolution/clarity with a 1ms persistence and I'll be a happy camper. But it seems like we've gone completely backwards with TV's(not monitors) and who knows how long it will take to get there again, which is why i just can't justify spending thousands on these overrated sample and hold displays.

User avatar
Chief Blur Buster
Site Admin
Posts: 11647
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 15:44
Location: Toronto / Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: Has the upcoming LG G3 & Samsung S95C's BFI improved?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 04 Mar 2023, 17:30

PapaJuan wrote:
22 Feb 2023, 13:23
I work at a retailer that will be selling these TVs. According to one of the LG representatives, there will be no BFI module shipping in any of the new LG TVs. He didn't give me much information on it, but said something along the lines of "No one uses it so who cares". I wouldn't use this information as fact just yet, as I was not at the same meeting he was at when he heard this information.
That happened to me with some conversations with LG, but I gave some big pushback on that conversation.

But just because less than 10% uses it (or even less than 1%), doesn't mean the feature is useless.

There's just too much legacy 60fps 60Hz material to fully forgo BFI.

What happened later is LG is now reconsidering BFI on some newer 240Hz OLED monitors (at least for 60 and 120Hz content).

I don't know what will happen to TVs.

Give it time.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

Image
Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

GammaLyrae
Posts: 116
Joined: 28 Mar 2018, 01:44

Re: Has the upcoming LG G3 & Samsung S95C's BFI improved?

Post by GammaLyrae » 07 Mar 2023, 20:11

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
04 Mar 2023, 17:30
PapaJuan wrote:
22 Feb 2023, 13:23
I work at a retailer that will be selling these TVs. According to one of the LG representatives, there will be no BFI module shipping in any of the new LG TVs. He didn't give me much information on it, but said something along the lines of "No one uses it so who cares". I wouldn't use this information as fact just yet, as I was not at the same meeting he was at when he heard this information.
That happened to me with some conversations with LG, but I gave some big pushback on that conversation.

But just because less than 10% uses it (or even less than 1%), doesn't mean the feature is useless.

There's just too much legacy 60fps 60Hz material to fully forgo BFI.

What happened later is LG is now reconsidering BFI on some newer 240Hz OLED monitors (at least for 60 and 120Hz content).

I don't know what will happen to TVs.

Give it time.
Good. I have two LG oled tvs in my house, but one bit of buyers remorse I have with both is that after release, newer firmwares came with updated privacy policies that you had to agree to in order to continue using services that worked fine without agreeing to them. The policies also became more invasive in general. I lodged a complaint with support and the response I got back was that it's industry standard and nothing will change.

I like that you can upload a 3d lut to the TV and have near-pro levels of calibration with less effort - but this feature and LG as a brand are not something I'm married to. No BFI support or not meeting at least the LG C1 in terms of bfi support is a no purchase on any monitor or TV of theirs, full stop. My money will go to who does it first, or in the event multiple companies provide it in roughly the same time period, the best of the two.

RonsonPL
Posts: 122
Joined: 26 Aug 2014, 07:12

Re: Has the upcoming LG G3 & Samsung S95C's BFI improved?

Post by RonsonPL » 08 Mar 2023, 13:31

I saw a press release about their new TV line, with all the good stuff listed.
They didn't mention motion at all. So that was already a sign of things to come.

It's really sad. There cannot be any big cost coming with BFI on OLEDs.
But the importance of low persistence is tricky to understand. Most people underestimate it. Even gamers. So what can we expect form a corpo-suit who probably never uses any other than 30fps content anyway. Sigh...

Chief. Let us know when you'll be talking with those guys again. We'll come. With banners and megaphones ;]
I can do anything to help the cause, aside from gluing myself to anything. I don't like these new ways of protesting too much ;]

RonsonPL
Posts: 122
Joined: 26 Aug 2014, 07:12

Re: Has the upcoming LG G3 & Samsung S95C's BFI improved?

Post by RonsonPL » 06 Apr 2023, 07:01

Timestamp in case it doesn't work in embedded:
https://youtu.be/VEnChcCQ2Dc?t=798

phpBB [video]

quote:
"sadly BFI at 120Hz won't be coming back in WRGB OLEDs for the foreseeable future"
:(

thatoneguy
Posts: 181
Joined: 06 Aug 2015, 17:16

Re: Has the upcoming LG G3 & Samsung S95C's BFI improved?

Post by thatoneguy » 07 Apr 2023, 08:36

RonsonPL wrote:
06 Apr 2023, 07:01
Timestamp in case it doesn't work in embedded:
https://youtu.be/VEnChcCQ2Dc?t=798

phpBB [video]

quote:
"sadly BFI at 120Hz won't be coming back in WRGB OLEDs for the foreseeable future"
:(
What in the flying [BLEEP] is wrong with LG?
Them being able to increase the light output is all the more reason they should allow BFI.
Seriously [BLEEP] this company and their anti-consumer bullshit. It's clear at this point that they're nerfing BFI because they want you to buy their 240hz monitors.
I hope somebody has enough of their [BLEEP] and does a DYI hack of these panels to make them useful.

RonsonPL
Posts: 122
Joined: 26 Aug 2014, 07:12

Re: Has the upcoming LG G3 & Samsung S95C's BFI improved?

Post by RonsonPL » 22 Apr 2023, 05:26

As they say: "don't see the malice, where there's just plain stupidity"

They aren't doing it on purpose. They just think their profits won't be higher than those few bucks required to implement strobing. They think nobody wants that, nobody cares, so why bother.

So at it stands
Help us Obi Chief Blurbuster, you are our only hope ;)

And yeah. It angers me as well. I was SO happy to read about brightness improvements.
For what I care, they could make the TV 20kg heavier if it allowed for 20% more brightness (cooling).

deama
Posts: 368
Joined: 07 Aug 2019, 12:00

Re: Has the upcoming LG G3 & Samsung S95C's BFI improved?

Post by deama » 23 Apr 2023, 08:18

Need to make some sort of partition for this, anyone good at making those?

Post Reply