Chamber wrote: ↑11 Sep 2023, 03:16
NeonPizza wrote: ↑10 Sep 2023, 19:52
Chamber wrote: ↑10 Sep 2023, 05:46
NeonPizza wrote: ↑09 Sep 2023, 13:11
One thing that's irritating with the LG C1's 120hz BFI, is that it's motion Pro low, medium & high settings, again when gaming at 120fps, gradually causes this weird unnatural harsh darkening(Not talking about brightness loss) with the image, the higher your go. I'm not entirely sure if it's shadow detail crushing or what but it looks awful. Is there a way to correct this?
For now, I just roll with vanilla 120fps. However 120fps+MPLow(Using the module HDR 'ON' setting in the service menu) manages to retain enough brightness to make it worth while, but once you get to High and even medium, the brightness just doesn't quite cut, at least for me personally.
You can improve near-black visibility on the LG C1 with OLED Motion Pro High using Reshade. Plasma TV for Gaming made a great tutorial showing how:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MyVfNWTewM. If you have any issues or findings you can let him know, as he reads all comments.
Thanks for the link! But what exactly does near black even mean? Are you referring to the unnatural darkening caused from Motion Pro Low, Medium & High? It's just so annoying knowing that I've forked over thousands for a TV, that's whipping out 20ms of input lag(CRT is around 3ms?) with it's 60hz BFI setting, and even the 60hz BFI's 6.2ms motion persistence can't come close to a CRT's 1ms. We're supposed to be moving forward, not backwards. 120fps is fantastic for what it is in it's own right creating that smooth life-like buttery motion, but i'm strictly talking persistence here.
The only way to get 3.2ms is with 120fps + MotionPro HIGH. But there's just too much brigthness loss by that point, including MPMedium, even with Module HDR On in the service menu, which is why i've opted for 120fps, or 120fps + MPLow depending on the title. vanilla 120fps gets you down to 5ms of lag, but when using 120fps with MP Low i've heard it bumps you up to 10ms.
I guess we'll have to wait a few more years until NanoLED arrives with enough brightness under the hood to salvage for CRT-like motion. If the TV manufactures won't put in the effort with great BFI, than maybe a future Retrotink model will be able to do 1ms persistence @4K.
When you mentioned shadow detail crush earlier that's what I mean by near black visibility. OLEDs can do true blacks perfectly but they tend to struggle with near black handling (basically shades that very dark but not quite black) compared to MiniLED and Plasma TVs. Sony and Panasonic OLEDs tends to have much better out near black handling compared to LG OLEDs, but they're also much more expensive. Black Frame insertion tends to crush blacks even further, but you can mitigate this by slightly raising the black levels.
The LG G3 and Samsung S95C can both do 1500 nits on 10% window, so CRT motion clarity should already be possible with rolling scan BFI utilizing HDR window brightness. Panel manufacturers just don't seem to care enough to implement BFI in this way. I've heard that 120Hz BFI was removed on LG OLEDs to allow for more brightness, which would make sense, I'm not sure if this is true but at least that would be a better justification for removing BFI then cost cutting.. But yeah NanoLED should be well beyond MLA WOLED and QD OLED in brightness while being cheaper to produce, so it seems to be the holy grail of display technology. Affordable MicroLED is still 10+ years way according to most analysts and Samsung's QNED was supposed to come out 2024 to 2025 but now it seems indefinitely delayed.
Gotcha! Reshade unfortunately cannot be used with consoles, it's PC exclusive. And PlasmaTVgaming said there wasn't any black crushing from MotionPro HIgh (or when using low, med & high for 120fps) and labeled it as darkening. It looks awful imo and completely unnatural. There's too much brightness loss with 120fps + MP Medium and High, so those are out. I'd consider using 120+MpLow while correcting the near black issue, but sometimes, depending on the genre it isn't always worth lowering the persistence by near- 2ms from 120fps(8.3ms) to 120fps + MotionPro Low(6.2ms) since lag shoots back up to 10ms from 5ms. But i like having the option to toggle between the two.
As for 60fps + MotionPro High. Even if the black crushing and near black were perfected, 'with' Module HDR set to ON in the service menu, there still just isn't enough brightness under the hood imo. A fresh out of the box Sony CRT wega trinitron from the mid 2000's, if memory serves me right, looked noticeably brighter when gaming. With the C1, the picture has this artificial darkness I guess from the black frames being inserted, and it's just a little too dim for my liking.
144fps + PC(4090) truly is the golden ticket if you've got the money, specifically for 3rd party titles that aren't capped. But that doesn't do anything for Nintendo's Exclusives. And yes, I don't think regular WOLED's are even bright enough to properly pull of 120hz BFI, beyond anything but the lowest setting for rolling scan bfi, and it makes sense that they've scrapped it entirely because most people won't even bother and may even be hard pressed to tell the difference. I can see the difference from vanilla 120, but it would seem silly to include just low and not medium and high for 120, which would wind up looking too dim anyways for most people.
QD-OLED on the other hand has a better shot with SDR 120hz BFI brightness, but 120 bfi at this point has been scrapped completely, and looks as if it's not happening for 2024 either. But ya, when do you think larger sized NanoLED's will finally hit the market? I'm itching for that 1ms motion persistence with high brightness.