OLED BFI Options?

High Hz on OLED produce excellent strobeless motion blur reduction with fast GtG pixel response. It is easier to tell apart 60Hz vs 120Hz vs 240Hz on OLED than LCD, and more visible to mainstream. Includes WOLED and QD-OLED displays.
GammaLyrae
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OLED BFI Options?

Post by GammaLyrae » 28 Feb 2023, 20:10

Given that oled BFI has a ways to go before it's as mature / customizable as LCD backlight strobing tech, I'm definitely still interested in new LCD monitors.

Next step specs (imo)
Resolution bump to 1440p
24-27" in size
Blur busters 2.0 certified (or greater, if a new cert process is in the works)
VA panel or IPS Black panel, whichever of the two can be at least as performant as the XG2431 in terms of perceived motion clarity between 60-120hz (IPS black is a new higher contrast version, first review I saw for one put that one at around an 1800:1 point, placing it near a lower end VA)
98-99% sRGB coverage with strobing enabled (like the XG2431, no "light boost tricks" that have you intentionally sabotaging image quality to improve pixel response time)

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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by GammaLyrae » 28 Feb 2023, 21:01

If someone wants to join Samsung in the PC OLED space, I'd accept this for OLED:

QDOLED or LG OLED, no strong preference as my play space is light controlled
240hz, and support for BFI at 240hz
1440p
27"
User choice of brightness vs motion clarity tradeoffs at 60hz, 120hz, 240hz, with the 480hz~ motion equivalency of 2ms mprt being supported at every valid bfi refresh rate (at a minimum, 60, 120, and 240 all have to work).
User interface is simple by default to improve review scores on rtings and casual user first impressions ("bfi on" for 240hz since there's no panel refresh headroom, "high" and "low" for 120hz, and "high", "medium", and "low" for 60hz), with a "power user" toggle that allows you to select your own "pulse width" in any allowable frame cadence and refresh rate that evenly divides into the internal 480hz refresh. Having this level of granularity in place would allow bfi support at 60hz, 80hz, 96hz, 120hz, 160hz, and 240hz since there's a real frame / black frame cadence combo that can fit into 480hz for all of them, with user selectable MPRT in 2~ms increments to make your own choice in brightness vs clarity tradeoffs

Until panel tech changes to modulate pixel "on" time via means other than a standard full panel refresh, I think this is the most economical direction to move and the most likely to be available first. I think power users that raved about the XG2431, XG270, or BenQ monitors that support the strobing utility would accept the lesser motion clarity in exchange for improvements elsewhere (zero cross talk, less or zero visible pixel overshoot artifacts, superior contrast and color coverage, "good enough" refresh rate coverage that allows the user to select an adequate tradeoff of motion clarity, brightness, framerate and the required performance to maintain that as a lock, etc)

I would probably consider it definitive enough that I'd not feel the need to purchase another BFI supporting OLED unless it's substantially brighter or has done some work to resolve the visible Gamma shift (aka "black and Grey flickering") you can see with fluctuating framerate while VRR is on

I would consider this feature set worth the premium $900+ asking price most current PC OLED monitors are asking for.

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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 28 Feb 2023, 23:38

Right now AFAIK, the /current/ LG OLED backplanes only supports as low as 4ms MPRT, so if BFI gets added (working on it) it'd only be available for sub-240Hz. I have now gotten information that BFI is coming to at least one 240Hz OLED. Keep tuned!
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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by GammaLyrae » 01 Mar 2023, 14:47

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
28 Feb 2023, 23:38
Right now AFAIK, the /current/ LG OLED backplanes only supports as low as 4ms MPRT, so if BFI gets added (working on it) it'd only be available for sub-240Hz. I have now gotten information that BFI is coming to at least one 240Hz OLED. Keep tuned!
Interesting. 4ms granularity would be less versatile, but it'd still be possible to support 60hz with 4/8/12ms mprt, settings, 80hz with 4/8ms mprt, and 120hz with 4ms mprt. Adding in 80hz support would be an advancement over what was offered on the LG CX/LG C1, if that makes the cut. Would be a good compromise for flicker reduction vs performance requirements compared to 120hz, and exists in the refresh band that most users stopped noticing flicker on CRTs (75hz-85hz)

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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by GammaLyrae » 01 Mar 2023, 14:59

I had briefly thought it might be plausible to support 4ms mprt for 160hz, but with what info I have (which is very little), my interpretation (I am not a display engineer or even an expert reviewer) is that for oled bfi to work with how it's currently implemented, every refresh rate has to scan out at the same speed as the max supported refresh, and motion clarity is improved by inserting black frame time into the scan out windows, using different configurations of real frame / black frame cadences to match different refresh rates and mprt settings.

Could be wrong.

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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 02 Mar 2023, 17:06

GammaLyrae wrote:
01 Mar 2023, 14:59
I had briefly thought it might be plausible to support 4ms mprt for 160hz, but with what info I have (which is very little), my interpretation (I am not a display engineer or even an expert reviewer) is that for oled bfi to work with how it's currently implemented, every refresh rate has to scan out at the same speed as the max supported refresh, and motion clarity is improved by inserting black frame time into the scan out windows, using different configurations of real frame / black frame cadences to match different refresh rates and mprt settings.

Could be wrong.
Yes, so you need to go no more than half refresh rate (e.g. 80Hz). The black frame can be longer than 4ms, by using VRR technique for non-integer-divisibility, e.g. black frames 1.3x longer than visible frames. But the best you can do with BFI at some of these OLED backplanes is half refresh rate + BFI.

Other OLED backplanes (e.g. MicroOLED used in PSVR2) can have arbitrary subrefresh rolling scan, and it definitely has adjustable OLED pulse widths -- just adjust brightness down to reduce motion blur.
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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by GammaLyrae » 02 Mar 2023, 19:01

Nice. Hopefully we see that kind of scan tech come to monitor sized displays.

Although, if by using VRR tech you can arbitrarily change the timing of the black frame(s), yet the panel has a 4ms MPRT limit, I wonder if that is in place to apply proper dithering and handle coming out of black without perceived flashing or smearing.

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Re: ViewSonic XG2431 Discussion Thread [Blur Busters Approved XG2431 - 24" 240Hz IPS with Best Strobing]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 04 Mar 2023, 21:24

GammaLyrae wrote:
02 Mar 2023, 19:01
Nice. Hopefully we see that kind of scan tech come to monitor sized displays.

Although, if by using VRR tech you can arbitrarily change the timing of the black frame(s), yet the panel has a 4ms MPRT limit, I wonder if that is in place to apply proper dithering and handle coming out of black without perceived flashing or smearing.
For panels that have no subrefresh BFI, then in theory, strobed VRR via monolithic black frames (rather than subrefresh scanout) to reduce motion blur by 50% is possible half VRR max Hz and below, by keeping the ON:OFF ratio identical for the (frametime of ON frame):(frametime of OFF frame). So for a VRR range 48-240 unstrobed, you could have a BFI-VRR strobe range of 48-120 for 50% pulse duty, and 48-80 for 33% pulse duty.

However, there's also VRR timing jitter that can wreak havoc, and could cause erratic flickering effects. Even a 1% variance in frametime = 1% difference in brightness. So keeping the pulse ratios extremely steady is super important for strobing.
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Re: OLED BFI Options?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 12 Mar 2023, 18:33

OLED BFI questions now split into a new thread.
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Re: OLED BFI Options?

Post by nuninho1980 » 13 Mar 2023, 14:17

OLED has only 4 ms MPRT!? Bad... We want 0.5 or lower.
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