VRR Gamma w/ OLED and Workarounds

High Hz on OLED produce excellent strobeless motion blur reduction with fast GtG pixel response. It is easier to tell apart 60Hz vs 120Hz vs 240Hz on OLED than LCD, and more visible to mainstream. Includes WOLED and QD-OLED displays.
Post Reply
BoredErica
Posts: 9
Joined: 19 Nov 2022, 08:41

VRR Gamma w/ OLED and Workarounds

Post by BoredErica » 15 May 2023, 03:27

Hi,
I just got a LG c2 OLED TV that does 120hz. I notice VRR gamma flickering w/ frametime variances in games. In Skyrim, most of the time such variances are actually brief stutters from navigating game menus rather than regular gameplay (running around, attacking enemies). Because the game is better optimized, I can generally guarentee stable 120fps. So, I decided not to use Gsync for Skyrim.

Oblivion is different because it's less well optimized. Traversal stutter running around outside happen pretty often. There are cases where frametimes are not stable. I can mitigate this somewhat by decreasing ini settings, reducing mods, and capping FPS to 100. However there's no way any time soon to get rid of traversal stutter. VRR gamma flicker is still kindda bad even w/ those tweaks, which do help.

1. Is there any indication that any substantial fix is on the horizon? I tried fiddling w/ fine tune blacks and black stabilizer but they don't help much while making image quite different. Is QD Oled as prone to this as woled?

2. If I don't use Gsync and Oblivion continues to exhibit traversal stutter + some general frame time inconsistencies, will these issues be reduced to an extent if if upgraded to a theoretical 240, 360, 480hz OLED display even if my frame times don't improve?

To rephrase the question: Are there benefits to having display refresh rate being way higher than achievable framerate if VRR is off?

Thanks

BoredErica
Posts: 9
Joined: 19 Nov 2022, 08:41

Re: VRR Gamma w/ OLED and Workarounds

Post by BoredErica » 16 May 2023, 02:48

Just noticed there is a new OLED forum section. I think this post might fit better in that section. Oops. I read just now also that Chief Blur Buster thinks 240hz OLED displays have less VRR gamma issues vs 120hz.

User avatar
RealNC
Site Admin
Posts: 3743
Joined: 24 Dec 2013, 18:32
Contact:

Re: VRR Gamma w/ OLED and Workarounds

Post by RealNC » 16 May 2023, 09:05

BoredErica wrote:
16 May 2023, 02:48
Just noticed there is a new OLED forum section. I think this post might fit better in that section. Oops. I read just now also that Chief Blur Buster thinks 240hz OLED displays have less VRR gamma issues vs 120hz.
Moved to OLED section.
SteamGitHubStack Overflow
The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.

GammaLyrae
Posts: 116
Joined: 28 Mar 2018, 01:44

Re: VRR Gamma w/ OLED and Workarounds

Post by GammaLyrae » 16 May 2023, 19:58

No known fix, at least not any that have been publicly disclosed. Even reviewers that first drew attention to this OLED characteristic no longer mention it in reviews for newer OLED tvs/monitors.

If you want a stable VRR image, your only options are LCD based displays. If you want better colors and contrast for fixed refresh content, you sacrifice VRR.

The only use case I can currently imagine for VRR on an oled is in emulation, especially in something like MAME where games have native refresh rates ranging from like 48hz to 71hz in all sorts of arbitrary increments. You could count on the emulator to maintain good frame timing on sufficiently powerful hardware and VRR would save you from having to create custom resolutions to play these games at their native refresh.

User avatar
Chief Blur Buster
Site Admin
Posts: 11648
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 15:44
Location: Toronto / Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: VRR Gamma w/ OLED and Workarounds

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 16 May 2023, 21:56

Keep in mind it's an overlapping venn diagram.

-- VRR flicker isn't very visible on all models. On my Corsair Xeneon Flex, I haven't been noticing VRR flicker as much as I thought I would;
-- VRR flicker can occur on some models of LCDs due to a LCD-decay phenomenon, especially in situations where LFC cycles on/off/on/off, or during large frametime spikes at high framerates.

The worst VRR-flicker on the worst LCDs is worse than the least VRR-flicker on the best OLEDs...
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

Image
Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

GammaLyrae
Posts: 116
Joined: 28 Mar 2018, 01:44

Re: VRR Gamma w/ OLED and Workarounds

Post by GammaLyrae » 06 Jun 2023, 16:37

I suppose that must be true. Hdtvtest did review one of the 240hz monitors and had a brief segment on vrr Gamma flicker. One of the test scenes had nothing perceivable, and the other were demonstrably less than he's shown for the LG TV size screens (presumably operating at 120hz).

I wonder how much of a role the max refresh of the panel plays in mitigating this.

User avatar
Chief Blur Buster
Site Admin
Posts: 11648
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 15:44
Location: Toronto / Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: VRR Gamma w/ OLED and Workarounds

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 20 Jun 2023, 20:17

BoredErica wrote:
15 May 2023, 03:27
will these issues be reduced to an extent if if upgraded to a theoretical 240, 360, 480hz OLED display even if my frame times don't improve?
Yes, if you can keep triple-digit framerates, it is greatly mitigated. Games maintaining 100-240fps (e.g. System Shock Remake) do not exhibit OLED VRR flickering issues, except during manually loading/saving games.

I have posted some info here how to mitigate your OLED VRR flicker, which is easier to do with 240Hz OLEDs:
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=12164#p95017
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

Image
Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

Post Reply