Eye strain issues with newer monitors(IPS/VA/TN)

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Re: Eye strain issues with newer monitors(IPS/VA/TN)

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 24 Apr 2023, 08:10

Lawlbringer wrote:
22 Feb 2023, 15:23
I'm very tempted to try the new LG 27GR95QE-B since it's OLED and 27"/1440p but apparently the WOLED pixel layout is awful for reading text and general desktop use.
MacType from www.mactype.net looks wonderful on the WOLED. Or you can also use Better ClearType tuner.

There is some work done adding custom subpixel rendering support to MacType (via a configuration file), experiments are currently ongoing.

Also, for some people who get eyestrain -- the white pixel gives a more natural full-spectrum white, instead of an "artifical" white generated from narrowband R,G,B. So there is a silver lining hiding behind the white-pixel compromise for people like you; you should at least give it a try. I got many anecdotes that OLEDs reduced eyestrain for some people, despite the text issue.

However, there is no guarantee -- eyestrain is caused by many different things, and it may not help.

Also, there are many brands of 27" OLEDs coming out -- keep an eye out.
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Lawlbringer
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Joined: 15 Sep 2022, 23:06

Re: Eye strain issues with newer monitors(IPS/VA/TN)

Post by Lawlbringer » 25 Apr 2023, 23:34

boomlegshot wrote:
24 Apr 2023, 06:51
Lawlbringer wrote:
09 Mar 2023, 15:45
I have. What's odd is my current old monitors are fairly bright when you turn off Night Mode in Windows which I have set to 60. It makes the screen warm enough to comfortably use. When I do the same to newer monitors it doesn't provide any relief.

I just ordered a colorimeter to check brightness and colors across all my monitors to see if I can get them more accurate/comfortable. At this point I have no idea why my eyes immediately strain using pretty much any modern panel type, resolution, or monitor size. I'm still doing my vision therapy until May to see if it helps but I really don't think I have a binocular vision problem.
Any updates? How are your results with color corrected image? I've returned a bunch of gaming monitors after finding them uncomfortable, specifically the whites that seem to be too bright. I happened to be near a store that has monitors on display, they appear to just show them how they are out of the box and out of all of them only a cheap non gaming 75hz IPS seemed to have an actual pleasant natural image.
Unfortunately a color corrected image did not help. Tried it on the 1080p and 1440p IPS monitors I still have laying around(MSI Optix MAG274R/Acer Nitro XV272U) with no real difference in comfort. I did try another "wild card" monitor with newer tech from a random non-big manufacturer: The KTC M27T20. It's a 165Hz VA panel mini-led monitor that retails for $500 online from an OEM supplier to brands like Cooler Master. Sadly, even after 2 straight weeks of moderate use with breaks, the eye strain was just too much to handle. The colors and image overall of this monitor are amazing outside of the slight VA panel smear but even at modest brightness settings, calibration, and 125% text scaling I was still left in significant head pain most days. HDR never worked right either and mine in particular had issues coming back from sleep so I'm going to return it via Amazon.

I get what you mean about the uncomfortable whites that seem too bright. The store displays even at places like Micro Center always have the worst setups that make actually testing out the monitor for comfort nearly impossible. At my nearest location they have $1000+ Samsung and VA and OLED monitors hooked up to crappy pre-built PC's with awful integrated graphics with jacked up settings.

For me personally, I really feel like the IPS glow + anti-glare coating on a lot of newer "gaming" panels makes the screen super uncomfortable to look at regardless of brightness. The Acer XV272U I have, for example, has a lot more glow vs the 1080p MSI MAG274R I have. It's definitely not backlight bleed either...I got used to checking for those back in the day with older crappy TN monitors. The MSI has a similar anti-glare coating that seems to be the norm with all modern monitors however and that one is only slightly less unbearable to use.
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
24 Apr 2023, 08:10
Lawlbringer wrote:
22 Feb 2023, 15:23
I'm very tempted to try the new LG 27GR95QE-B since it's OLED and 27"/1440p but apparently the WOLED pixel layout is awful for reading text and general desktop use.
MacType from www.mactype.net looks wonderful on the WOLED. Or you can also use Better ClearType tuner.

There is some work done adding custom subpixel rendering support to MacType (via a configuration file), experiments are currently ongoing.

Also, for some people who get eyestrain -- the white pixel gives a more natural full-spectrum white, instead of an "artifical" white generated from narrowband R,G,B. So there is a silver lining hiding behind the white-pixel compromise for people like you; you should at least give it a try. I got many anecdotes that OLEDs reduced eyestrain for some people, despite the text issue.

However, there is no guarantee -- eyestrain is caused by many different things, and it may not help.

Also, there are many brands of 27" OLEDs coming out -- keep an eye out.
So I did end up trying the LG 27GR95QE-B as well once Micro Center had it in stock. The text crispness even without any ClearType fiddling or 3rd party tweaks was actually not too bad at all. My main issue was the anti-glare coating which sort of dulled the colors and made everything slightly less clear. This panel also made my eyes hurt significantly to the point I'd get a headache using it for only 15 minutes. I tweaked the brightness(it's pretty dim) as well but I couldn't go more than a week using this. I think my eyes just hate OLED period...I've always gotten discomfort even going back to the first Samsung phones using the technology. I used to think it was PWM related but I've tried several OLED devices(including newer iPhones), 1 OLED TV, and 1 OLED gaming monitor and still get a very painful discomfort in my eyes from short usage. I'm the odd man out now that all newer tech seems to be going towards OLED. Truly a hellish frustration for someone fortunate enough to be able to afford such nice things but not actually able to enjoy them.

At this point the only other things I can try I feel are:

- Monitor OR smaller TV(42"-43" or smaller) with glossy coating that's not OLED (to rule out anti-glare coating)
- Professional-grade IPS monitor with better contrast/less IPS glow that may only be 60-75Hz

I do have a follow up appointment with my eye doctor next week to see if the vision therapy has helped and to have her check my eyes again. I'll keep you all posted on my journey and if anything changes but I appreciate all the replies and support, it means a lot!

MajinMatt1983
Posts: 1
Joined: 30 Apr 2023, 22:29

Re: Eye strain issues with newer monitors(IPS/VA/TN)

Post by MajinMatt1983 » 30 Apr 2023, 22:41

Lawlbringer wrote:
25 Apr 2023, 23:34
boomlegshot wrote:
24 Apr 2023, 06:51
Lawlbringer wrote:
09 Mar 2023, 15:45
I have. What's odd is my current old monitors are fairly bright when you turn off Night Mode in Windows which I have set to 60. It makes the screen warm enough to comfortably use. When I do the same to newer monitors it doesn't provide any relief.

I just ordered a colorimeter to check brightness and colors across all my monitors to see if I can get them more accurate/comfortable. At this point I have no idea why my eyes immediately strain using pretty much any modern panel type, resolution, or monitor size. I'm still doing my vision therapy until May to see if it helps but I really don't think I have a binocular vision problem.
Any updates? How are your results with color corrected image? I've returned a bunch of gaming monitors after finding them uncomfortable, specifically the whites that seem to be too bright. I happened to be near a store that has monitors on display, they appear to just show them how they are out of the box and out of all of them only a cheap non gaming 75hz IPS seemed to have an actual pleasant natural image.
Unfortunately a color corrected image did not help. Tried it on the 1080p and 1440p IPS monitors I still have laying around(MSI Optix MAG274R/Acer Nitro XV272U) with no real difference in comfort. I did try another "wild card" monitor with newer tech from a random non-big manufacturer: The KTC M27T20. It's a 165Hz VA panel mini-led monitor that retails for $500 online from an OEM supplier to brands like Cooler Master. Sadly, even after 2 straight weeks of moderate use with breaks, the eye strain was just too much to handle. The colors and image overall of this monitor are amazing outside of the slight VA panel smear but even at modest brightness settings, calibration, and 125% text scaling I was still left in significant head pain most days. HDR never worked right either and mine in particular had issues coming back from sleep so I'm going to return it via Amazon.

I get what you mean about the uncomfortable whites that seem too bright. The store displays even at places like Micro Center always have the worst setups that make actually testing out the monitor for comfort nearly impossible. At my nearest location they have $1000+ Samsung and VA and OLED monitors hooked up to crappy pre-built PC's with awful integrated graphics with jacked up settings.

For me personally, I really feel like the IPS glow + anti-glare coating on a lot of newer "gaming" panels makes the screen super uncomfortable to look at regardless of brightness. The Acer XV272U I have, for example, has a lot more glow vs the 1080p MSI MAG274R I have. It's definitely not backlight bleed either...I got used to checking for those back in the day with older crappy TN monitors. The MSI has a similar anti-glare coating that seems to be the norm with all modern monitors however and that one is only slightly less unbearable to use.
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
24 Apr 2023, 08:10
Lawlbringer wrote:
22 Feb 2023, 15:23
I'm very tempted to try the new LG 27GR95QE-B since it's OLED and 27"/1440p but apparently the WOLED pixel layout is awful for reading text and general desktop use.
MacType from www.mactype.net looks wonderful on the WOLED. Or you can also use Better ClearType tuner.

There is some work done adding custom subpixel rendering support to MacType (via a configuration file), experiments are currently ongoing.

Also, for some people who get eyestrain -- the white pixel gives a more natural full-spectrum white, instead of an "artifical" white generated from narrowband R,G,B. So there is a silver lining hiding behind the white-pixel compromise for people like you; you should at least give it a try. I got many anecdotes that OLEDs reduced eyestrain for some people, despite the text issue.

However, there is no guarantee -- eyestrain is caused by many different things, and it may not help.

Also, there are many brands of 27" OLEDs coming out -- keep an eye out.
So I did end up trying the LG 27GR95QE-B as well once Micro Center had it in stock. The text crispness even without any ClearType fiddling or 3rd party tweaks was actually not too bad at all. My main issue was the anti-glare coating which sort of dulled the colors and made everything slightly less clear. This panel also made my eyes hurt significantly to the point I'd get a headache using it for only 15 minutes. I tweaked the brightness(it's pretty dim) as well but I couldn't go more than a week using this. I think my eyes just hate OLED period...I've always gotten discomfort even going back to the first Samsung phones using the technology. I used to think it was PWM related but I've tried several OLED devices(including newer iPhones), 1 OLED TV, and 1 OLED gaming monitor and still get a very painful discomfort in my eyes from short usage. I'm the odd man out now that all newer tech seems to be going towards OLED. Truly a hellish frustration for someone fortunate enough to be able to afford such nice things but not actually able to enjoy them.

At this point the only other things I can try I feel are:

- Monitor OR smaller TV(42"-43" or smaller) with glossy coating that's not OLED (to rule out anti-glare coating)
- Professional-grade IPS monitor with better contrast/less IPS glow that may only be 60-75Hz

I do have a follow up appointment with my eye doctor next week to see if the vision therapy has helped and to have her check my eyes again. I'll keep you all posted on my journey and if anything changes but I appreciate all the replies and support, it means a lot!
I looked at the list of all the monitors you have used and I see a pattern. You are going with larger size monitors and sitting at an arms length. Go smaller. BenQ makes an excellent "22 and with all my eye strain issues I never had a single headache with it. Also, tilt your screen in a slightly upward position to where your head is resting down at it.

As stated, I think you are wanting to be close to bigger screens and your eyes are telling you no. Yes, it sucks to go smaller and not enjoy the best tech but what's a better solution, uncomfortable or comfortable. That benQ is $130. What do you have to lose?

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r0ach
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Joined: 10 Oct 2023, 14:45

Re: Eye strain issues with newer monitors(IPS/VA/TN)

Post by r0ach » 17 Jan 2024, 23:12

The solution you’re looking for is probably the new 1440p 240hz BOE panel. It’s the only semi-new panel I’ve found without unbearable eye strain. Otherwise look for a new, old stock panel back before every monitor was "thin film," "fast IPS" + wide gamut.

TankTopBilly
Posts: 3
Joined: 01 Feb 2024, 16:52

Re: Eye strain issues with newer monitors(IPS/VA/TN)

Post by TankTopBilly » 02 Feb 2024, 06:54

I feel I have the same problems as you. For the moment i cant find a newer phone that dont give me these symptoms.

The monitor i use now is 1440p and overall a good screen '(tried the lg27gp83, which hurt my eyes).

suggest you try it if you can find it in your country: Xiaomi Mi Curved Monitor 34

Lawlbringer
Posts: 8
Joined: 15 Sep 2022, 23:06

Re: Eye strain issues with newer monitors(IPS/VA/TN)

Post by Lawlbringer » 06 Jun 2024, 22:40

Hello everyone, long time no update! Figured I'd fill you in on my struggle/journey:

- Vision therapy did nothing for me. After a few months I had my eyes re-checked and even the doctor was stumped as to why I'm having so much discomfort using pretty much every modern monitor. She even mentioned it to her colleagues at a vision conference as a case she couldn't solve. Under her advice, I tried prism glasses, glasses with slight magnification, and with a tint with no luck. My vision is still 20/20 and according to every ophthalmologist I've seen...I shouldn't need glasses for anything, especially mid-range computer work. Even correcting a very minor .50 astigmatism I had left after eye surgery did nothing to improve comfort. Eye dryness isn't really an issue either unless I'm using monitors that cause my eyes to strain and get dry.

- Since my last post last year I decided to try a cheap ultrawide for nearly a year from Amazon: INNOCN 40C1R 40" ultrawide monitor. It was a deal on Amazon and I wanted to try the ultrawide form factor and fell in love. Sadly, my eyes would struggle most days with the IPS-ADS panel it used. The PPI was not high but everything was easy to read yet I still would get eye fatigue and dryness pretty quickly most days that would turn into a headache. During this time I used the PC less and less and pretty much gave up gaming due to the discomfort.

- I gave up on the INNOCN monitor and tried another, newer, but VERY pricey monitor: Dell U4025QW. After lowering the brightness it became the most comfortable of the modern monitors I've used. Some days I was fine if I took enough breaks, but usually I felt some pressure behind the eyes but usually never painful enough that it caused me a debilitating headache. Unfortunately, the panel is a bit slow in terms of response time that was noticeable. I would've just lived with it but for $1,800 I returned it to possibly find something else. The IPS black panel was great though...definitely an upgrade over every other washed out 1000:1 contrast IPS monitor I've used before.

- I'm currently trying out the U2724D which is another 27"/1440p smaller(and a lot cheaper) Dell Ultrasharp. The discomfort is pretty noticeable and after a week it's still not very comfortable. I tried this because it also has an IPS black panel with great contrast and colors and 120Hz refresh rate but it's probably going back.

I did tinker with polarization as a possible eye strain trigger and noticed: My old TN panel monitors and the U4025QW did not turn black with polarized sunglasses...but other panels, like the INNOCN and Dell U2724D did. The latter two are the most uncomfortable to use of this bunch.

So now I'm pretty much stuck with forking over $1,800 again for the U4025QW and dealing with the slight but tolerable discomfort most days or just using my ancient monitors...which feel so bright and low resolution now that I'd rather just not use the computer at all. Unfortunately since I work from home most days I still need something I can use to get things done.

I appreciate all the replies and suggestions but I'm starting to feel like I may just have to live with discomfort and eye strain if I want to use any modern monitor these days. I'm super envious of anyone who doesn't have to deal with this curse as it really has just killed my PC gaming as a hobby and PC use in general. Not really sure what else to try...

User avatar
kyube
Posts: 146
Joined: 29 Jan 2018, 12:03

Re: Eye strain issues with newer monitors(IPS/VA/TN)

Post by kyube » 08 Jun 2024, 15:07

Lawlbringer wrote:
06 Jun 2024, 22:40

I did tinker with polarization as a possible eye strain trigger and noticed: My old TN panel monitors and the U4025QW did not turn black with polarized sunglasses...but other panels, like the INNOCN and Dell U2724D did. The latter two are the most uncomfortable to use of this bunch.

So now I'm pretty much stuck with forking over $1,800 again for the U4025QW and dealing with the slight but tolerable discomfort most days or just using my ancient monitors...which feel so bright and low resolution now that I'd rather just not use the computer at all. Unfortunately since I work from home most days I still need something I can use to get things done.

I appreciate all the replies and suggestions but I'm starting to feel like I may just have to live with discomfort and eye strain if I want to use any modern monitor these days. I'm super envious of anyone who doesn't have to deal with this curse as it really has just killed my PC gaming as a hobby and PC use in general. Not really sure what else to try...
I'm interested in the polarizer orientation part. Could you try using your displays in a orientation that matches the monitors that work for you? To be specific, rotate the monitor 90° (or 120-180°) and try using it like that.

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