[Help] Astigmatism, only TN panel works without eye strain? Chief? Pls?

[Chief Blur Buster]

Excellent. Sometimes going beyond vision diagnosis is very productive!

Various ailments such as allergies and physical injuries definitely can interfere with eyes!

(e.g. swelling = eyeball shape change / lens shape change = affects vision).

Sometimes it is easy to miss the forest for their trees.

Occasionally when you've eliminated all the indirect causes, and vision effects are still lingering -- you still have to self-diagnose your sensitivities when it comes to screens. Many are motionblur-sensitive, while others are flicker-sensitive. Much like how some see tearing and others can't.

But early vision issues (from indirect ailments) can be a canary mine for vision issues you will encounter at age 40-50+ as your eyes age. So learning experience today may be useful when your vision issues re-emerge again later in life from a different cause. Sometimes the identical display eyestrain causes reappear;

[Chief Blur Buster]

A new thread just popped up about eyestrain. I'm crossposting additional information.

...27GL850-B NanoIPS...
...GIGABYTE M27Q X 27" 2560x1440px IPS 240Hz...
...G-MASTER GB2770QSU-B1 27" RED EAGLE...

Your 3 displays are too identical.

Self diagnosis is required when it comes to gaming monitors.
(as most eye doctors don't know the differences between 2 brands of monitors -- they can create vision issues)

Common attributes suggest doing some additional tests
- Color gamut issue (try a SDR backlight)
- Wavelength issue from the phoshpors (try a non-NanoIPS)
- Antiglare texture (try an Apple display as a test)
- Brightness (try dramatically dimming)
- Polarization sensitivity (try rotating monitor 90 degrees)
- Blue light (Don't use the low blue light mode as it still leaks a lot since LCD black isn't perfectly black; try wearing orange-tinted computer glasses from Amazon/eBay, this gives you a proper physical Low Blue Light mode)

So I am crossposting:

There are MANY causes of eyestrain that are not related to flicker or PWM.
- antiglare filter texture
- polarization
- pixel structure
- brightness
- contrast
- color gamut
- blur eyestrain
- stutter eyestrain
- screen too bright relative to environment
- viewing distance
- etc

Everybody is different. Some people get more motion blur eyestrain, to the point where strobing reduces eystrain (especially when using VSYNC ON framerate=Hz, especially when reducing strobe crosstalk via refresh rate headroom, e.g. 120fps 120Hz on a 240Hz panel). So your eyestrain won't be the same as others.

Strobing framerate=Hz is often less eyestrain than PWM dimming, because the phantom array effect is the bigger eyestrain cause than the direct flicker itself.

Brightness strain test: Reduce brightness via monitor OSD. If already too low, adjust using NVIDIA Control Panel. Add a bias light behind your monitor so your monitor is not rudely blatantly the brightest object in your vision field.

Blur eyestrain: Turn strobing on and see what happens (optional, but recommended, use framerate=Hz too as strobing amplifies jitters). Temporarily lower your refresh rate, if necessary, since some monitors do poor quality strobing during max Hz, and better quality strobing during lower Hz.

Stutter eyestrain: Test VSYNC ON (or similar framerate=Hz sync technology like RTSS Scanline Sync) or use VRR.

Color gamut strain test: Reduce contrast in NVIDIA Control Panel and see what happens. Or try a dramatically different screen tech (LCD vs OLED, SDR -only 72% NTSC backlight vs HDR capable wide gamut backlight, etc)

Viewing distance: Try sitting twice as far away as a test. If it helps eyestrain, try doubling the size of the display (get a TV) and doubling the view distance. Same angular view. See if that helps. Some people now use TVs as computer monitors (e.g. 4K 120hz G-SYNC LG OLED TVs have become popular gaming monitors for the 42", 48" and 55" sizes -- usually pushed to the very back of a meter-deep desk, or wall-mounted, even move desk slightly back).

Blue light: Try orange-tinted computer glasses commonly available on Amazon and eBay. They're non-vision-correcting, just like sunglasses, except designed for computer use. This is superior and fuller than monitor based low-blue-light feature, since that doesn't help blacks and dim colors at all, which will often still be fairly bluish, creating eyestrain issues in things like dungeon games that is unfixed by the Low Blue Light feature.

Polarization strain test: Most monitors use a rotatable stand, so rotate your monitor 90 degrees (And configure Control Panel for a portrait display) and see if your eyestrain changes on your IPS panel. Some people are eyestrain-sensitive to the light polarization of certain LCDs. Many IPS panels are polarized 90 degrees differently than many TN panels. Also, AUO vs Innolux sometimes have different polarizations.

Some are difficult to test (e.g. antiglare texture test).

Unfortuantely, you will have to self-diagnose, as there are too many eyestrain causes of a monitor.

If you've got a TV or tablet that does not give you eyestrain, please list those displays. By knowing what screen technology, I can give you a screen recommendation that is more successful than most non-esports eye doctors. Screens have hidden vision pitfalls that are a massive rabbit hole that is poorly researched.

Also NanoIPS generally doesn't strobe as well, due to the red KSF phosphor issue. So if you diagnose your eyestrain to motion blur nausea, then you need to use a different screen and backlight technology that has better motion blur reducing capabilities. 120Hz-240Hz sample-and-hold still has lots of motion blur, you need >1000fps 1000Hz (sample and hold) or a good strobing feature (flicker like CRT) to kill the display motion blur. If you have a modern VR headset (e.g. PlayStation, Quest, Rift, etc) and you never get eyestrain from them, then you know: Possible motion blur eyestrain, because all modern VR headsets are strobing (flicker-based motion blur reduction).

Heck, even test a 42" LG OLED TV as a desktop monitor. LG's latest OLEDs are generally all 4K 120Hz with G-SYNC built in. Or try the new 170 Hz ultrawide desktop OLEDs that hit the market.

Displays are imperfect simulations of real life. Remember LCD monitor backlights are often a complex light-emission curve -- no two LCD backlights/edgelights are the same. NanoIPS backlights emit different sharp-peaks than QD backlights than old SDR LED backlights than old CCFL backlights. The shape of the spectra is one of the many "niche" causes of eyestrain.

Your 3 displays are too identical, so you need to dramatically go sideways.

I recommend OLED only simply as a binary-search "cause search" endeavour because it hits practically half of the vision checkboxes. A dramatic sideways technology change eliminates half of the potential issues listed). They don't use antiglare, they have totally different light emission spectra, they have totally different blue light control features (much more complete), they have perfect blacks, they enforce a viewing distance change, etc. So it's like a totally brand new environment for your eyes to experiment with.

If you want to stick to LCD (there are many good reasons, like low lag and ultrahigh Hz, plus lower-MPRT strobing capability in some good models), that means more minor changes that you have to test more clearly, you have to self-diagnose more by testing at least 10+ displays bare minimum, and inform the brands to me, because I need to see more dramatic differences in backlight LED phosphors and LCD antiglare filters. 10+ monitor test minimum, 3 is not enough to self-diagnose if you're only doing a single-line-item self-diagnosis, better to suddenly change a lot of checkboxes simultaneously in this difficult self-diagnosis endeavour.

You always should have vision doctor help like you did (to at least find common root causes of your vision). But once that's solved and you still have eyestrain -- we can play an additional supplemental role fine-tuning because of the hidden rabbit hole of the vision-ergonomic differences between different displays.

Since this is becoming a more popular subtopic, and I've sometimes had success in helping reduce many peoples' "esports monitor eyestrain", I may begin to create a dedicated subforum for "Gaming Monitor Ergonomics (Eyestrain, etc)". But for now...

[Loyal888]

A new thread just popped up about eyestrain. I'm crossposting additional information.

...27GL850-B NanoIPS...
...GIGABYTE M27Q X 27" 2560x1440px IPS 240Hz...
...G-MASTER GB2770QSU-B1 27" RED EAGLE...

Your 3 displays are too identical.

Self diagnosis is required when it comes to gaming monitors.
(as most eye doctors don't know the differences between 2 brands of monitors -- they can create vision issues)

Common attributes suggest doing some additional tests
- Color gamut issue (try a SDR backlight)
- Wavelength issue from the phoshpors (try a non-NanoIPS)
- Antiglare texture (try an Apple display as a test)
- Brightness (try dramatically dimming)
- Polarization sensitivity (try rotating monitor 90 degrees)
- Blue light (Don't use the low blue light mode as it still leaks a lot since LCD black isn't perfectly black; try wearing orange-tinted computer glasses from Amazon/eBay, this gives you a proper physical Low Blue Light mode)

So I am crossposting:

There are MANY causes of eyestrain that are not related to flicker or PWM.
- antiglare filter texture
- polarization
- pixel structure
- brightness
- contrast
- color gamut
- blur eyestrain
- stutter eyestrain
- screen too bright relative to environment
- viewing distance
- etc

Everybody is different. Some people get more motion blur eyestrain, to the point where strobing reduces eystrain (especially when using VSYNC ON framerate=Hz, especially when reducing strobe crosstalk via refresh rate headroom, e.g. 120fps 120Hz on a 240Hz panel). So your eyestrain won't be the same as others.

Strobing framerate=Hz is often less eyestrain than PWM dimming, because the phantom array effect is the bigger eyestrain cause than the direct flicker itself.

Brightness strain test: Reduce brightness via monitor OSD. If already too low, adjust using NVIDIA Control Panel. Add a bias light behind your monitor so your monitor is not rudely blatantly the brightest object in your vision field.

Blur eyestrain: Turn strobing on and see what happens (optional, but recommended, use framerate=Hz too as strobing amplifies jitters). Temporarily lower your refresh rate, if necessary, since some monitors do poor quality strobing during max Hz, and better quality strobing during lower Hz.

Stutter eyestrain: Test VSYNC ON (or similar framerate=Hz sync technology like RTSS Scanline Sync) or use VRR.

Color gamut strain test: Reduce contrast in NVIDIA Control Panel and see what happens. Or try a dramatically different screen tech (LCD vs OLED, SDR -only 72% NTSC backlight vs HDR capable wide gamut backlight, etc)

Viewing distance: Try sitting twice as far away as a test. If it helps eyestrain, try doubling the size of the display (get a TV) and doubling the view distance. Same angular view. See if that helps. Some people now use TVs as computer monitors (e.g. 4K 120hz G-SYNC LG OLED TVs have become popular gaming monitors for the 42", 48" and 55" sizes -- usually pushed to the very back of a meter-deep desk, or wall-mounted, even move desk slightly back).

Blue light: Try orange-tinted computer glasses commonly available on Amazon and eBay. They're non-vision-correcting, just like sunglasses, except designed for computer use. This is superior and fuller than monitor based low-blue-light feature, since that doesn't help blacks and dim colors at all, which will often still be fairly bluish, creating eyestrain issues in things like dungeon games that is unfixed by the Low Blue Light feature.

Polarization strain test: Most monitors use a rotatable stand, so rotate your monitor 90 degrees (And configure Control Panel for a portrait display) and see if your eyestrain changes on your IPS panel. Some people are eyestrain-sensitive to the light polarization of certain LCDs. Many IPS panels are polarized 90 degrees differently than many TN panels. Also, AUO vs Innolux sometimes have different polarizations.

Some are difficult to test (e.g. antiglare texture test).

Unfortuantely, you will have to self-diagnose, as there are too many eyestrain causes of a monitor.

If you've got a TV or tablet that does not give you eyestrain, please list those displays. By knowing what screen technology, I can give you a screen recommendation that is more successful than most non-esports eye doctors. Screens have hidden vision pitfalls that are a massive rabbit hole that is poorly researched.

Also NanoIPS generally doesn't strobe as well, due to the red KSF phosphor issue. So if you diagnose your eyestrain to motion blur nausea, then you need to use a different screen and backlight technology that has better motion blur reducing capabilities. 120Hz-240Hz sample-and-hold still has lots of motion blur, you need >1000fps 1000Hz (sample and hold) or a good strobing feature (flicker like CRT) to kill the display motion blur. If you have a modern VR headset (e.g. PlayStation, Quest, Rift, etc) and you never get eyestrain from them, then you know: Possible motion blur eyestrain, because all modern VR headsets are strobing (flicker-based motion blur reduction).

Heck, even test a 42" LG OLED TV as a desktop monitor. LG's latest OLEDs are generally all 4K 120Hz with G-SYNC built in. Or try the new 170 Hz ultrawide desktop OLEDs that hit the market.

Displays are imperfect simulations of real life. Remember LCD monitor backlights are often a complex light-emission curve -- no two LCD backlights/edgelights are the same. NanoIPS backlights emit different sharp-peaks than QD backlights than old SDR LED backlights than old CCFL backlights. The shape of the spectra is one of the many "niche" causes of eyestrain.

Your 3 displays are too identical, so you need to dramatically go sideways.

I recommend OLED only simply as a binary-search "cause search" endeavour because it hits practically half of the vision checkboxes. A dramatic sideways technology change eliminates half of the potential issues listed). They don't use antiglare, they have totally different light emission spectra, they have totally different blue light control features (much more complete), they have perfect blacks, they enforce a viewing distance change, etc. So it's like a totally brand new environment for your eyes to experiment with.

If you want to stick to LCD (there are many good reasons, like low lag and ultrahigh Hz, plus lower-MPRT strobing capability in some good models), that means more minor changes that you have to test more clearly, you have to self-diagnose more by testing at least 10+ displays bare minimum, and inform the brands to me, because I need to see more dramatic differences in backlight LED phosphors and LCD antiglare filters. 10+ monitor test minimum, 3 is not enough to self-diagnose if you're only doing a single-line-item self-diagnosis, better to suddenly change a lot of checkboxes simultaneously in this difficult self-diagnosis endeavour.

You always should have vision doctor help like you did (to at least find common root causes of your vision). But once that's solved and you still have eyestrain -- we can play an additional supplemental role fine-tuning because of the hidden rabbit hole of the vision-ergonomic differences between different displays.

Since this is becoming a more popular subtopic, and I've sometimes had success in helping reduce many peoples' "esports monitor eyestrain", I may begin to create a dedicated subforum for "Gaming Monitor Ergonomics (Eyestrain, etc)". But for now...

Dear chief!

Thank you very much for all your work and recommendations. Yesterday, I went to my 3rd appointment, again to a different optometrist. My lab test came back today as well.

I've suspected that dairy is not going to be the culprit here. My optometrist even said that dairy can't cause eyestrain. I started to have stomach pains and bloating in the beginning of September.

My official result is that I'm allergic to gluten. I haven't got anything else. The eyestrain was caused by the gluten allergy. I suspected it's not dairy a few days ago. So I researched it further and stopped eating gluten products. My stomach pain has been gone on the 2nd day and my eyes never looked better. I did think it was dairy at first though and said so. But at that point I remember that I stopped eating gluten products as well like bread and so on. That's why I was feeling better back then.

I hope this post is going to help people who have similar issues. I have to note that. When I started to have eyestrain such a long time ago, I didn't have any other symptoms other than the eyestrain. Although my nose were stuffed, I thought that was because I might have deviation of nasal septum.

I will be healed in a few weeks. When that happens I make sure to try out an IPS monitor for a longer time to see how I react to it. As per my doctor said, allergies are causing sensitivity to the light as well as eye complications. I can see how that could be my problem and probably had placebo effects of thinking that va causing problems. However I know that many people are saying that nano ips is bad for our eyes. It could be true.

Again, thank you for all your help Chief!

I will report back as soon as I can.