Flicker-based vs Framerate-based Blur Reduction

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, ToastyX, black frame insertion (BFI), and now framerate-based motion blur reduction (framegen / LSS / etc).
Post Reply
User avatar
Chief Blur Buster
Site Admin
Posts: 11895
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 15:44
Location: Toronto / Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Flicker-based vs Framerate-based Blur Reduction

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 05 Sep 2024, 09:39

There are two legitimate ways to reduce display motion blur.
You can even combine the two (e.g. framegen 60fps->120fps, and then strobe the 120fps to 1/240sec blur).

1. Framerate-Based Motion Blur Reduction

Examples: More GPU, or framegen, LSS, extrapolation, interpolation, reprojection, spacewarping

- MPRT motion blur is frametime.
- Needs higher Hz
- Double framerate = half motion blur.
- Works fantastically on OLED. (Gold standard is 480Hz+)
- No flicker, full brightness, HDR
- More common to have VRR
- May need help of massive framegen (preferably 4x framerate such as LSS or DLSS 3.5+)
- Can be superior for modern content if you can maintain frame rate
- Future will be 10x framegen for 90% motion blur reduction

2. Strobe-Based Motion Blur Reduction

Examples: Black frame insertion (BFI), strobe backlight modes (ULMB, DyAc, ELMB, PureXP, LightBoost), or phosphor impulsing (CRT, plasma)

- MPRT Motion blur is pulsewidth time.
- Does not need higher Hz to reduce blur (just improves smoothness/flicker/stroboscopics)
- Requires flicker/impulsing but reduces massive amounts of motion blur
- Looks best at framerate=refreshrate=stroberate
- Can darken images
- Some models are inflexible (won't let you blur-reduce certain refresh rates, unless Blur Busters Approved)
- Less common with VRR
- Can be superior for retro content or when you can't maintain frame rate

Comparison Diagram

Image
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on: BlueSky | Twitter | Facebook

Image
Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

RonsonPL
Posts: 127
Joined: 26 Aug 2014, 07:12

Re: Flicker-based vs Framerate-based Blur Reduction

Post by RonsonPL » 10 Sep 2024, 15:35

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
05 Sep 2024, 09:39

2. Strobe-Based Motion Blur Reduction

Examples: Black frame insertion (BFI), strobe backlight modes (ULMB, DyAc, ELMB, PureXP, LightBoost), or phosphor impulsing (CRT, plasma)

- Looks best at framerate=refreshrate=stroberate
- Can darken images
- Can be superior for retro content or when you can't maintain frame rate


Nice summary. May I have a few suggestions about the quoted parts?

It should tell the laymen about the stable framerate requirement. Quite an important requirement and may be even more important to laymen than it is to us, as they may struggle getting the hardware and settings good enough to achieve this. Especially for what's sadly common nowadays - strobe range starting at 100 or 120Hz. This is sometimes impossible to achieve in modern games even on lowered settings and on mid-to-high end hardware
Also, I'd change:
- Looks best at framerate=refreshrate=stroberate > - Only works at framerate=refreshrate=stroberate
The downsides are hard to accept for many people already. I don't think many would use it if the upsides are diminished as much as they are at framerate not being stable.
- Can darken images -> Will darken images
- Can be superior for retro content or when you can't maintain frame rate > Is superior in terms of motion representation quality.

This one's tricky. Personally I refuse to play retro games without BOTH of the traditional advantages of CRT TVs: nice picture and vivid colors that "pop out", good contrast and no problems with insufficient brightness and motion quality. Depending on the game, "superior" may be placed in both framerate based category and strobed category
The newly arrived CRT filters simulating CRT sub-pixel structure are really awesome but darkens the image. With strobing, many displays will no longer have enough power for the artwork made in the 80s and 90s to work as intended. Without that "spark", a lot of retro "magic" may be gone. And on the other hand, same thing can be said about motion, at least in games which ran at stable 50 or 60fps. I know Retrotink does a neat trick with pretending it's HDR to remedy the britghness issue, but even then, getting both motion and contrast/brightness right with CRT shaders is very difficult.

User avatar
Chief Blur Buster
Site Admin
Posts: 11895
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 15:44
Location: Toronto / Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: Flicker-based vs Framerate-based Blur Reduction

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 11 Sep 2024, 19:54

RonsonPL wrote:
10 Sep 2024, 15:35
- Looks best at framerate=refreshrate=stroberate > - Only works at framerate=refreshrate=stroberate
The downsides are hard to accept for many people already. I don't think many would use it if the upsides are diminished as much as they are at framerate not being stable.
Yes, correct.

There's GSYNC Pulsar and a few other options, but framerate-based blur reduction is superior for varying framerate material.

Framerates that vary 300-450fps looks amazing on a 480Hz OLED, and the udulations between 1/450sec-1/300sec motion blur isn't as objectionable as the strobe double-image effects.
RonsonPL wrote:
10 Sep 2024, 15:35
- Can darken images -> Will darken images
Not necessarily. Model dependant. BenQ DyAc+ uses massive voltage-boosting to keep strobing equally as bright as non-strobing.
RonsonPL wrote:
10 Sep 2024, 15:35
- Can be superior for retro content or when you can't maintain frame rate > Is superior in terms of motion representation quality.
Framerate-based motion blur reduction has finally become superior to *some* strobe-based motion blur reduction now.

For example, 480fps 480Hz OLED looks clearer motion (without strobing), less motion blur than some strobe backlights:

480fps 480Hz = 1/480sec MPRT = 2.1ms MPRT
LightBoost = 2.4ms pulsewidth = 2.4ms MPRT

Also, 480fps 480Hz OLED has less than half the motion blur of an average plasma (phosphor persistence).

We're finally achieving (GtG=0) AND (refresh rates=high enough) to witness framerate-based motion blur reduction becoming clearer than some strobe backlights. Sure, there's strobe backlights that can go down to 0.5ms or 0.25ms, but not all of them do, and even when they do, they sometimes fail at brightness.

The point is the blur venn diagram now overlaps between framerate-based blur reduction and strobe-based blur reduction.
RonsonPL wrote:
10 Sep 2024, 15:35
This one's tricky. Personally I refuse to play retro games without BOTH of the traditional advantages of CRT TVs: nice picture and vivid colors that "pop out", good contrast and no problems with insufficient brightness and motion quality. Depending on the game, "superior" may be placed in both framerate based category and strobed category.
Yes, there's pros/cons
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on: BlueSky | Twitter | Facebook

Image
Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

RonsonPL
Posts: 127
Joined: 26 Aug 2014, 07:12

Re: Flicker-based vs Framerate-based Blur Reduction

Post by RonsonPL » 13 Sep 2024, 08:00

I meant this part:
- Can be superior for retro content

Maybe we have different definitions on what retro is. Playstation 1 still exists in my memory as "that new console" ;)
I assumed by retro, you meant emulation.
Since emulated games cannot run above 60Hz (75Hz maybe for some arcade machines) the only working solution is to strobe it. Even if frame interpolation advances on some miracle, it will still cost time. Emulators already add latency. More latency would ruin the experience in many games, especially as fans of retro are now old and the reaction times are worse, so a game that's challenging and sometimes annoying, changes into infuriating experience without any traces of fun. The games were designed for ultra low motion-to-photon latency of CRT TVs of that era.


Of course, if you meant old 3D games are retro, then sure, those can run at 500fps (if the framerate is not capped) and of course that would work great.


Thanks for the info regarding Benq's DyAC boosting the backlight. I assumed it's not possible due to some technical barriers, cause nobody changed that for many years since LightBoost was introduced and I always heard complaints about it in monitor reviews. Maybe I should consider upgrading my Benq XL2411Z after all ;)
Maybe that part should be divided into OLED/LCD. "will" applies to OLED and most LCDs.

Supermodel_Evelynn
Posts: 220
Joined: 21 Aug 2022, 14:28

Re: Flicker-based vs Framerate-based Blur Reduction

Post by Supermodel_Evelynn » 02 Nov 2024, 12:41

I play a competitive shooter "The Finals" it uses UE5

On my RX 6800 XT and Ryzen 5700 X3D and 16GB RAM I can just about maintain 120 FPS stable at 1080p, just barely but stable.

Strobing is essential, FPS based blur reduction is a fantasy

What we need is VRR with strobing and high brightness over 300 nits.

soisoi
Posts: 3
Joined: 28 Nov 2024, 11:27

Re: Flicker-based vs Framerate-based Blur Reduction

Post by soisoi » 28 Nov 2024, 11:30

For old school retro games such as: Wolfenstein ET, RtCW, WarZone, Quake Live. What monitor would be best? XL2586X or PG27AQDP the monitor would be solely used for these games only. I'm not sure I can buy the whole "framerate-based blur reduction" i feel on the games I mentioned they are still too fast paced to be as clear as ULMB2 & DYAC+ or DYAC2. Does anyone have any experience with this situation? Am I wrong? Would love to hear your thoughts

Post Reply