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Lightboost vs ULMB vs Benq BlurR. vs DyAc INPUT LAG

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.

Re: Lightboost vs ULMB vs Benq BlurR. vs DyAc INPUT LAG

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 12 Mar 2018, 11:00

Techno Viking wrote:Well, it does strobe @ 240 hz. Strange thing is, i'ts also really smooth under 240 fps, or even 400 fps.
From what i remember basically anything not being exactly 240 fps , (or 120 fps in those days) was an absolute crap fest when strobing.

That's the ultra high framerates playing a huge role in this.
The higher the framerates, the smaller the microstutters are.
To a point, it ceases to look like crap. While it does look slightly less smooth than TestUFO-perfect-smooth, it's much more usable.

Techno Viking wrote:It seems that that is no longer the case, i don't understand HOW though. I checked multiple times if the strobe was really on, and it is . Am i the victim of wishful thinking/placebo effect ?

No -- your very high framerates massively decreases the microstutter. The stutter-jump (moving object vibrations) distance during 400fps is only one-quarter versus 100fps.

This was also the case for 120Hz LightBoost -- 400 frames per second VSYNC OFF at 120Hz LightBoost stopped looking like crap too.

Microstutter visibility mattered more when you were at only 100 frames per second (regardless of refresh rate) but matters a whole lot less at 400 frames per second.
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Re: Lightboost vs ULMB vs Benq BlurR. vs DyAc INPUT LAG

Postby Techno Viking » 12 Mar 2018, 11:51

Allright , i see .

Well that's good new i guess .
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Re: Lightboost vs ULMB vs Benq BlurR. vs DyAc INPUT LAG

Postby PanzerIV » 14 Mar 2018, 23:01

Hopefully I am not too outsubject but I wanted to share something I've noticed when comparing side by side both my (BenQ XL2730Z) to my new (Acer XB271HU) with their own strobbing method. I did put both at their maximum 100 Brightness level and 120Hz as it appears that Acer won't strobe at 144-165Hz which is kind of dumb even if not something I would have used in AAA games... and I'm pretty sure that I could tell the Acer one was somewhat dimmer.

Is that the fault of "ULMB" technology as both monitors do have a spec of 350cd/m² so I didn't expect a clear difference between the two. It's a bit disappointing but not the the point of being a dealbreaker. With all that said and from what I've read, I think it would be safe to say that "BenQ's DyAc" is prolly the best strobbing you can get at the moment.
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Re: Lightboost vs ULMB vs Benq BlurR. vs DyAc INPUT LAG

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 15 Mar 2018, 08:32

NVIDIA ULMB is supposed to be the best in being easy and at their specific refresh rates compared to default (unadjusted) BenQ/Zowie series.

That said, Large Vertical Totals + Strove Utility (or Factory Menu) can make their strobing better than ULMB in many ways. A lot more fiddly but worth the effort once you understand strobe calibration, and need the flexibility.
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Re: Lightboost vs ULMB vs Benq BlurR. vs DyAc INPUT LAG

Postby lexebidar » 15 Mar 2018, 13:15

Techno Viking wrote:LG 27GK750F-B

Well, it does strobe @ 240 hz. Strange thing is, i'ts also really smooth under 240 fps, or even 400 fps.
From what i remember basically anything not being exactly 240 fps , (or 120 fps in those days) was an absolute crap fest when strobing.

It seems that that is no longer the case, i don't understand HOW though. I checked multiple times if the strobe was really on, and it is .
Am i the victim of wishful thinking/placebo effect ?

I think i'm just going to leave it on always.

What do You mean?

Normally, with typical ulmb, if You drop below strobe refresh rate, the gameplay feels kinda juddery and frames are dupplicated.
Is dyac different in any way? I never used ulmb because in games where I could not reach constant 144hz on ag251fg, it felt bad... so I always ended up using gsync
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Re: Lightboost vs ULMB vs Benq BlurR. vs DyAc INPUT LAG

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 15 Mar 2018, 14:09

lexebidar wrote:
Techno Viking wrote:LG 27GK750F-B

Well, it does strobe @ 240 hz. Strange thing is, i'ts also really smooth under 240 fps, or even 400 fps.
From what i remember basically anything not being exactly 240 fps , (or 120 fps in those days) was an absolute crap fest when strobing.

It seems that that is no longer the case, i don't understand HOW though. I checked multiple times if the strobe was really on, and it is .
Am i the victim of wishful thinking/placebo effect ?

I think i'm just going to leave it on always.

What do You mean?

Normally, with typical ulmb, if You drop below strobe refresh rate, the gameplay feels kinda juddery and frames are dupplicated.
Is dyac different in any way? I never used ulmb because in games where I could not reach constant 144hz on ag251fg, it felt bad... so I always ended up using gsync

Techno Viking is right to an extent. While it's not as smooth as perfect triple match (framerate = refreshrate = stroberate) of the most perfect possible strobed motion ...

Sometimes it is amoother to do 100fps@240Hz strobed than 100fps@120Hz strobed.

This is because there are less refresh-cycle rounding effects, so the maximum stutter vibration amplitude can be closer to 1/240th the motionspeed, rather than 1/120th the motion speed. From a software developer perspective -- depending on how "gametime" is calculated (e.g. gametime derived from refresh cycle times, or gametime derived from actual microsecond timestamps), your stutter amplitude may be halved at 100fps@240Hz versus 100fps@120Hz.

Yes -- you do have more multi-image effects at 100fps@240Hz than 100fps@120Hz, but some people are more bothered by the "stutter" than the "multi-image" effect. A smoother multi-image may be preferable to some people than a stutterier single-image.

Motion quality is a complex topic that covers:
- Motion blur
- Stutters
- Multi-image effects
- Refresh rate & frame rate effects can affect all the 3 above very differently

Now, if we're comparing 100fps@120Hz versus 220fps@240Hz (20fps below), you'll definitely have much better strobed motion at 220fps@240Hz than 100fps@120Hz. That is, if your display supports 240Hz strobe modes. If you've bought a 240Hz monitor, you probably have a more powerful GPU than you did when you had a 144Hz monitor. The overkill framerates, the overkill Hertz, all simultaneously help reduce stutters.

Some people are not motion blur sensitive, but are stutter sensitive. Others are multi-image sensitive and motion blur sensitive, but not really stutter sensitive. Some people don't see tearing, others do see it well. Some swear by GSYNC, some swear by ULMB, some swear by neither of the above. Human vision has funny differences in sensitivity between different people.

Obviously, if you're sensitive to ALL the above (blur, sutters, multi-image), you definitely need the triple lock (framerate = refreshrate = stroberate) to make your video games as perfectly TestUFO-smooth or Nintendo Super Mario CRT smooth, with the perfect zero-stutter zero-blur motion. This magical "60fps CRT" effect only occurs on strobed monitors with the triple lock (framerate = refreshrate = stroberate), which means 85fps@85Hz, 100fps@100Hz, or 120fps@120Hz.

However, not everyone needs or wants the triple lock -- and wants the lower input lag of VSYNC ON, but with most of the benefits of blur reduction. Overkill framerates is your friend.

But if you want to temporarily stare at microstutter-free ULMB/strobing/etc.
(bear with the input lag temporarily, this is just a motion demo to copy the "TestUFO smoothness" into your favourite video game)
1. Enable ULMB
2. Enable VSYNC ON
3. Make sure your framerate is maxed out
4. Use keyboard strafe left-right while standing very close to high-detail-texture walls to high-speed pan.
5. Observe the CRT effect (zero-blur zero-stutter effect).

Basically, anything that causes perfect-motion panning. (bypass mouse microstutter error margins). Or try fast keyboard scrolling in RTS scrolling or platformer -- anything that causes a roughly ~1000 pixels/sec panning motion in your game -- or 3rd person view spinning in place -- to create scenery panning speed roughly same speed as a TestUFO UFO at default speed -- to hunt for microstutter visibilities.

Now, 200fps VSYNC OFF at at 240Hz can probably look decently good enough to the average gaming mice, since many gaming mice don't turn left-right as smoothly as keyboard strafe left-right. The mouse microstutter of the average gaming mice (even 1000Hz) can pretty much be worse than the microstutters of 200fps@240Hz VSYNC OFF strobed. So you might not be noticing the microstutter of framerates below refreshrates during your strobed mode. (It is often ultra-tiny microstutters, even single-pixel and two-pixel jumping -- the "jittery stutter" effect of strobing can be MUCH smaller during 240Hz strobing)

If you want a mouse that can turn left/right as smoothly as keyboard strafe left/right, you need a very good gaming mouse & a very good mousepad (not your desk surface). It's very difficult to completely eliminate mouse microstutters to the point where the strobed smoothness of mouse turn left/right is identical to the strobed smoothness of keyboard strafe left/right. See Blur Busters Mouse Guide.
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Re: Lightboost vs ULMB vs Benq BlurR. vs DyAc INPUT LAG

Postby lexebidar » 15 Mar 2018, 15:25

Thanks Chief! You are a strobed monster. Probably the most knowledgeable person on this topic ever.
This is very informative post! You probably noticed my posts recently. I don't know what I want really and hence so many questions. The gsync monitor (rather 2 monitors) I had, as in ag251fg was used only in gsync mode since my gtx 1060 cannot really do steady 144 or 240 in most games. Only some odler titles. I would've probably replayed them in 144hz ulmb if I kept the monitor.

But now that I am again before the choice of buying new monitor, I am just trying to see if I can live without gsync. I had 60hz standard monitors for years and it never bothered me. Well, I guess ignorance is bliss and now I am in position where I want good quality pciture, motion blur reduction and gsync.
The task of looking for new monitor is much easier if I eliinte gsync from equation since there is very little gsync models. They are pricey and flawed.
So now I am kinda eyeing the 27GK750F-B since it's in my price range. or cheaper 24GM79G-B... or just standard/best iq ips. Lg also has ips at 75hz but no strobing and 75hz strobing would be too little anyway.
I already have good mouse (1000hz) and keyboard. I did tested different polling rates at 240hz when I had it and it made a huge difference like in your guide.

Anyway - I am derailing every topic there is on this forum so sorry for this and thanks for the information!
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