ULMB vs GSYNC for 60fps games

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
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Balloba
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ULMB vs GSYNC for 60fps games

Post by Balloba » 01 Oct 2022, 15:15

Hello, I play competitive fighting games and emulated games both hard capped at 60fps. I have an asus pg279 capable of both ulmb and gsync and i'm wondering which one is more suited for my needs. I read a lot about it in the forum but i'm still a bit confused and have some questions:

Does ulmb actually add any input lag? More than gsync?
Does ulmb provide any value if the game's frame rate is half the strobe rate (60/120)? I saw some crosstalk but imo is still better than blur, what do you think?
In nvidia 3d settings I have low latency enabled and vsync managed by the 3d application, should I enable vsync globally instead for gsync? Doesn't it add input lag?
Is ulmb useless for variable frame rates? I tried it with some first person shooters and even with unstable frames it was a much better experience than the usual blur.
Do you recommend to use the ulmb+gsync hack as a catch all solution?

Thanks for your replies

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: ULMB vs GSYNC for 60fps games

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 01 Oct 2022, 16:54

Balloba wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 15:15
Hello, I play competitive fighting games and emulated games both hard capped at 60fps. I have an asus pg279 capable of both ulmb and gsync and i'm wondering which one is more suited for my needs. I read a lot about it in the forum but i'm still a bit confused and have some questions:
You came to the right forum -- it's a matter of Right Tool For Right Job. Please read that thread to make a better decision because it's very game-specific.
Balloba wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 15:15
Does ulmb actually add any input lag? More than gsync?
TL;DR: "Yes strobing increases lag but it can reduce human reaction time"

Yes, strobing add input lag.
But it may still be less human lag: Faster reaction time.
But the motion blur reduction can speed up human reaction time.

Strobing wins in esports when human reaction time decreases more than the increase in display lag for your specific gaming tactic. Not all gaming tactics will benefit. So it depends on the game.

Remember, lag tests by youtubers and reviewers don't measure the human-reaction-time part of the lag chain:
Image

Sometimes you need to intentionally increase display lag to decrease human reaction time (e.g. a feature that does reduced stuttering / reduced blur) to make certain gaming tactics easier to react faster to. That's why some esports champions use strobing such as DyAc in some games (e.g. Rainbow Six) more often than other games (e.g. CS:GO).
Balloba wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 15:15
Does ulmb provide any value if the game's frame rate is half the strobe rate (60/120)? I saw some crosstalk but imo is still better than blur, what do you think?
TL;DR "Depends on the game and how you perform with the feature"
Balloba wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 15:15
In nvidia 3d settings I have low latency enabled and vsync managed by the 3d application, should I enable vsync globally instead for gsync? Doesn't it add input lag?
TL;DR "Depends on your goals and preferences"

Traditionally esports is VSYNC OFF, but sometimes strobing performs with framerate=Hz technology. The problem is strobing amplifies microstutters/jitters, including those generated by VSYNC OFF. You can however compensate by using framerates far beyond refresh rates.

VSYNC ON has a bit of lag, but is reduced by the new NVIDIA NULL feature, but you can also use software-based "VSYNC ON simulation via VSYNC OFF" such as using RTSS Scanline Sync. That's the world's lowest-lag DIY VSYNC ON clone mode. However, it only works well with framerate=Hz, not framerates below Hz.
Balloba wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 15:15
Is ulmb useless for variable frame rates? I tried it with some first person shooters and even with unstable frames it was a much better experience than the usual blur.
TL;DR "Depends on your goals and preferences"

Uncappped brute framerates works okay with strobing. For example 240Hz VSYNC OFF strobing with 300fps+ games. The brute framerate compensates by keeping jitters tiny. But if you're prioritizing perfect blur free motion AND jitter-free motion, you want framerate=Hz.

My favourite way to get TestUFO-smooth motion in games is something like 8KHz mouse (configured to minimum 2KHz) + 1600dpi + low in-game sensitivity + one of the low-lag "framerate=Hz" sync technologies (whether VSYNC ON + NULL or an even-lower-lag software based sync technology such as RTSS Scanline Sync). Since mouse jitters are more visible at 1000Hz poll rate when strobing is enabled.

Also don't neglect fixing your mouse microjittering via adjusting mouse settings to be smoother with strobing. Smoother pans, scrolls, turns, etc. Getting a mouse faster than 1000Hz really human-visibly helps the strobe jitters. It's amazing. If your system or game can't perform well enough for max Hz of mouse, you don't even need to run the mouse at 8000Hz, because 2000Hz-4000Hz is more than enough to solve the strobe jittering on today's 1080p 240Hz screens.

But not all games works very well with that. Fortnite is high-DPI friendly but CS:GO has some weird mouse math imprecision issues when using DPI's above 800.

That's why almost nobody in esports use >800dpi in CS:GO, but one-third of the FaZe Clan uses >1000dpi in Fortnite. In other words, try to always use the highest accurate DPI in the game you play, if you want to de-jitter your strobing as much as possible. (lower game sensitivity to compensate).

But, getting a better mouse really helps strobing fluidity more than non-strobed fluidity.
Peer reviewed research confirmed 1000Hz is not enough in a gaming mouse anymore.
What many people don't know is that the mouse upgrade is more important when a display is strobed;

Image

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Balloba wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 15:15
Do you recommend to use the ulmb+gsync hack as a catch all solution?
Unfortunately it's not a universal solution. There is nasty flicker problems during frame rate fluctuations, and some algorithms compensate by automatically disabling strobing briefly during frame rate drops (e.g. ASUS ELMB-SYNC).

However, VRR strobing is useful when you can keep framerate fluctuations within the sweet spot of the strobe backlight, or if you're wanting to create your own low-latency "perfect VSYNC ON clone" (via capped VRR). Capped VRR works well with less lag than VSYNC ON, but only if the game sustains extremely high frame rates to avoid the artifacts and flicker.

YMMV.
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Balloba
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Re: ULMB vs GSYNC for 60fps games

Post by Balloba » 01 Oct 2022, 17:21

Thanks for you detailed answer Chief. I have another question, I read that for 60 fps games is still better to have higher refresh rate monitors to reduce input lag even further. Doesn't gsync nullify this by bringing the monitor refresh rate back to 60? Isn't just better to have a fixed refresh rate at a multiple of 60 like 120hz?

RonsonPL
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Re: ULMB vs GSYNC for 60fps games

Post by RonsonPL » 02 Oct 2022, 06:08

Balloba wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 17:21
I read that for 60 fps games is still better to have higher refresh rate monitors to reduce input lag even further. Doesn't gsync nullify this by bringing the monitor refresh rate back to 60? Isn't just better to have a fixed refresh rate at a multiple of 60 like 120hz?
Yes, it will lower the lag a bit, but not by much, if you display 60fps at 120Hz refreshrate.
But not nearly as much as having 120fps at 120Hz.
Also, there's a question of whether it is v-sync, v-sync off oro g-sync/free-sync.
Having v-sync off at 120Hz with 60fps, will greatly reduce the input lag compared to 60fps at 60Hz.

I am not interested in g-sync until it can be flawless with motion reduction mode (low persistence) so don't know all that much about it, but I'd assume it won't increase the input lag as it will not "bring the monitor refreshrate down". It will simply display the frame when it arrives. That said, I might be wrong on this one.

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jorimt
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Re: ULMB vs GSYNC for 60fps games

Post by jorimt » 02 Oct 2022, 19:56

Balloba wrote:
01 Oct 2022, 17:21
I read that for 60 fps games is still better to have higher refresh rate monitors to reduce input lag even further. Doesn't gsync nullify this by bringing the monitor refresh rate back to 60? Isn't just better to have a fixed refresh rate at a multiple of 60 like 120hz?
RonsonPL wrote:
02 Oct 2022, 06:08
I am not interested in g-sync until it can be flawless with motion reduction mode (low persistence) so don't know all that much about it, but I'd assume it won't increase the input lag as it will not "bring the monitor refreshrate down". It will simply display the frame when it arrives. That said, I might be wrong on this one.
See:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9001
https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101- ... ttings/13/

TLDR; similar to no sync, G-SYNC has a latency advantage in this scenario. I.E. 60 FPS 120Hz is lower latency than 60 FPS 60Hz with G-SYNC as it can still take advantage of the faster scanout, regardless of the framerate; 60 FPS G-SYNC causes the scanout to repeat 60 times per second, but each of those 60 scanout cycles per second complete in 8.3ms at 120Hz as opposed to 16.6ms at 60Hz.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

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