I read talk of 1000fps in the future but will this benefit existing games?

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
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Nintendude
Posts: 8
Joined: 25 Aug 2020, 05:34

I read talk of 1000fps in the future but will this benefit existing games?

Post by Nintendude » 06 Mar 2023, 12:25

Hi all,

As we know, the death of the CRT has been a major blow for those of us who can't stand the motion blur of sample-and-hold technology.

I'm always on the lookout for the tech that will give us back what we took for granted for so many years.

I have an LGCX which I use with BFI max which is great and the only way I can play 60FPS games.

But... it seems BFI may be being phased out or at least not focussed on with each successive TV.

Thus I read about 1000fps and frame rate amplification but no one ever mentions if this can help all the games made before the ones that will natively take advantage of it, towards the end of the decade.

Will I be able to take my copy of Wonder Boy: Dragon's Trap (Master System) or Ocarina of Time (N64) and play them with an increased frame rate circa 2030 - even 60fps would be so much better. Is it only PC games that will benefit?

If not - what's the point? Is every game made before the tech arrives confined to its frame rate cap forever?

If anyone could give me hope then that would be enough for me :)

Zodasaur
Posts: 90
Joined: 21 Jun 2021, 08:26

Re: I read talk of 1000fps in the future but will this benefit existing games?

Post by Zodasaur » 06 Mar 2023, 15:09

Nintendude wrote:
06 Mar 2023, 12:25
Hi all,

As we know, the death of the CRT has been a major blow for those of us who can't stand the motion blur of sample-and-hold technology.

I'm always on the lookout for the tech that will give us back what we took for granted for so many years.

I have an LGCX which I use with BFI max which is great and the only way I can play 60FPS games.

But... it seems BFI may be being phased out or at least not focussed on with each successive TV.

Thus I read about 1000fps and frame rate amplification but no one ever mentions if this can help all the games made before the ones that will natively take advantage of it, towards the end of the decade.

Will I be able to take my copy of Wonder Boy: Dragon's Trap (Master System) or Ocarina of Time (N64) and play them with an increased frame rate circa 2030 - even 60fps would be so much better. Is it only PC games that will benefit?

If not - what's the point? Is every game made before the tech arrives confined to its frame rate cap forever?

If anyone could give me hope then that would be enough for me :)

The PC port of Ocarina Of Time can run at 60 FPS and higher so yes.

RonsonPL
Posts: 122
Joined: 26 Aug 2014, 07:12

Re: I read talk of 1000fps in the future but will this benefit existing games?

Post by RonsonPL » 06 Mar 2023, 18:13

In short: In (too) many cases - the advantages of 1000fps blur-free image will be very limited if not completely nullified.

Most games have low framerate caps. We don't know yet what initial framerate numbers will be viable for amplification, in which game genres etc.
It will probably require 100+fps to avoid very bad impact to responsiveness and motion-to-photon latency.
For some game genres it may be 200 or higher. 30fps would be OK only for ineractive movie games, where you have barely any fast gameplay, as the whole game is about following a story and watching characters acting. So there's no single number for all here.

Meanwhile we have a substantial number of games which have framerate caps at 160-240fps.
And of course, games capped at 60fps still happen, unfortunately.

This alone poses a problem.
Then there are games without the option to disable motion blur complately, and lastly, in growing majority of games, disabling TAA or other method which negatively impacts motion quality, is simply not possible.
Even if the fixes still work years later, when 1000fps hardware is available, even if disabling TAA can be done, then there's still a problem of the game design. There's no "no TAA" version of the assets or graphics settings. Just look how wrong the trees look in Red Dead Redemption 2. How wrong and undersampled are some shadows, screenspace reflections or hairs in many games.
Even if you run the game at native 8K, those issues will remain in most cases. It's really jarring sometimes. Like playing a 4K game with some parts of the screen rendered with Playstation 1 resolution.

Those game will either look broken or blurry no matter what. Even at 1000Hz.

It also won't help that upcoming generation of AAA games will be dominated by Unreal Engine 5 approach and similar. Also, there's a growing focus on ray-tracing, where people more interested in lighting than gaming, see realistic motion blur as a big advantage of RT. Also, getting good results in 2024+ games with RT and stable 100fps will be a hard task anyway. And that's without taking the DLSS into account.
Currently, a 2000$ card (4090) cannot even hold 30fps at 4K in many games. And some games drop below 20fps.
By the time 1000Hz starts going mainstream the RT games will be designed for some more advanced baseline. Maybe even PS6. Surely those games won't have lower requirements than Portal RT.
Then there's variable rate shading. Even if 1000fps frame amplification was flawless, there can still be visible artifacts if the game locks this setting on a stupid value (as we've already seen happening)

Then there can be issues with other frame amplification technologies, like the one decoupling "eye/head" movement from all the other movement in game, similar to VR technologies. If RT games with 40fps become the most popular, with 40fps game + 120-240fps for mouse "look around" movement, it may be an additional issue with playing it at 10000Hz, although I'm not sure here, as I lack programming knowledge.

Some things will be fixed by gaming community. But some games have awful DRMs or other issues and it may be impossible to create fixes for those.

mango87
Posts: 33
Joined: 04 Nov 2020, 18:20

Re: I read talk of 1000fps in the future but will this benefit existing games?

Post by mango87 » 07 Mar 2023, 10:02

If 1000hz monitors become mainstream, old games can still benefit from them given the right software. If there was a driver level option to do software BFI, you could theoretically run 60 fps games with less motion blur at 960hz. A single frame at 960hz has a persistence of 1ms, which is incredible for motion clarity when you combine that with BFI at 60 fps. So it's not all bad if strobing goes away in future displays as long as BFI can be implemented via software. Though I doubt Nvidia or AMD cares about this so someone who will have to hack it in games.

Nintendude
Posts: 8
Joined: 25 Aug 2020, 05:34

Re: I read talk of 1000fps in the future but will this benefit existing games?

Post by Nintendude » 08 Mar 2023, 13:16

Thanks for the responses guys!

Seems both depressing and hopeful.

I guess we really don't know what's going to happen but it seems that maybe the big boys probably won't care and it'll be up to the fans to create a solution.

Speaking of which - I'm hopeless at this stuff but would it ever be possible for someone to create a 'BFI Box' - something you can plug into any TV and add BFI variations to it? Something like that would have huge potential.....

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