1000hz mouse [Wireless?]

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
raknarius
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1000hz mouse [Wireless?]

Post by raknarius » 27 Jan 2014, 03:43

using lightboost I see this site recommends 1000hz mouse, just wondering if a 500hz will do I wanted to buy a Logitech mouse that was cordless and the 602 fits that bill, and has some cool energy saving features, but it only does 500hz, but I would hate for it to be a issue so let me know.

if 1000hz is really nessessary any good reliable wirless mice 1000hz that are less then 100 bucks. I do need five buttons but that's it nothing too complicated, don't need super high dpi either. im a simple guy. but I don't want to be handicapped by huge lag either so hmm im not sure

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Re: 1000hz mouse

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 27 Jan 2014, 09:32

raknarius wrote:using lightboost I see this site recommends 1000hz mouse, just wondering if a 500hz will do I wanted to buy a Logitech mouse that was cordless and the 602 fits that bill, and has some cool energy saving features, but it only does 500hz, but I would hate for it to be a issue so let me know.
sharknice would be a good guy to respond to this.
We have a Blur Busters article coming right up (after I got some major responsibilities out of the way) featuring some of his writings.

One big reason of 1000Hz mice, is with LightBoost is that LightBoost eliminates so much motion blur, that frames no longer blend into each other, and every source of stutter (microstutters, including mouse inaccuracies) becomes much more visible. So you want to eliminate as many weak links as possible from your gaming setup. The difference between 500Hz and 1000Hz becomes more visible with LightBoost than non-LightBoost.
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       To support Blur Busters:
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raknarius
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Re: 1000hz mouse

Post by raknarius » 27 Jan 2014, 10:16

can anyone suggest a good reliable, 1000hz mouse, that's wireless, and has five buttons or more. 75bucks would be great but I could go 100 max if needed. ive always loved Logitech but im sure there are other reliable brands right?

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Re: 1000hz mouse

Post by sharknice » 27 Jan 2014, 10:33

raknarius wrote:can anyone suggest a good reliable, 1000hz mouse, that's wireless, and has five buttons or more. 75bucks would be great but I could go 100 max if needed. ive always loved Logitech but im sure there are other reliable brands right?
There really aren't that many wireless mice good enough for gaming out there.

The G602 you were looking at before is pretty good, but it sacrifices a bit of accuracy for battery life. I haven't used it personally but it would be my second choice for a wireless gaming mouse.

The Logitech G700S is the best wireless mouse out there IMO. It is wireless with 1000hz polling, 13 buttons, and you can usually get it for $75 through amazon.
The battery typically lasts around 15 hours in gaming mode. So as long as you plug it in to charge at night you should have plenty of battery. You can always use it while it is plugged in and charging too if you have to, or just swap out the AA battery.

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Re: 1000hz mouse

Post by RealNC » 27 Jan 2014, 10:35

For reference: I friend of mine is using a 125Hz mouse (a basic Microsoft Intellimouse) on an Asus VG248QE with LB enabled. It looks just fine, so I would imagine that 500Hz would have no problems whatsoever.
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Re: 1000hz mouse

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 27 Jan 2014, 10:49

RealNC wrote:For reference: I friend of mine is using a 125Hz mouse (a basic Microsoft Intellimouse) on an Asus VG248QE with LB enabled. It looks just fine, so I would imagine that 500Hz would have no problems whatsoever.
Yes, it looks fine under specific cases, e.g. running Quake Live, where 125fps works well, or using fps_max very close to the mouse poll rate.

However, the big issue with 125Hz mice with LightBoost is that it causes more visible microstutters in other use cases, when you vary the variables, fixed-framecap, variable-framerate, VSYNC OFF and VSYNC ON situations, GSYNC variable refresh rate, and situations where you're trying to optimize framerate == refreshrate == stroberate. This is where you begin to see microstutter differences.

It looks fine until tried against a good Razer DeathAdder or good Logitech, especially during fast left/right movements. When turning left/right, my games look this smooth: http://www.testufo.com/photo (when viewed as a 120fps animation in a stutter free browser such as Chrome running Aero mode), and my mouse movements become as smooth as keyboard strafe left/right.
125Hz mouse cannot do that in all use cases.

Note: Make sure your friend has "mouse smoothing" turned off, because software based mouse smoothing makes it look as stutterfree as a 1000Hz mouse, at the expense of adding input lag.

During 1000 pixels/second motion, a 125Hz mouse can alias positions to a previous or next frame, which can mean microstutter amplitude of (1000/125) = 8 pixel amplitude of microstutter. This, I see VERY easily when I reduce my Razer DeathAdder or Logitech G9x down to 125Hz, and try to turn left/right with LightBoost enabled. Turning is no longer as smooth as TestUFO motion.
At 500Hz, you have a (1000/500) = 2 pixel amplitude of microstutter at 1000 pixels/second. At 1000Hz, you have only (1000/1000) = 1 pixel amplitude of microstutter at 1000 pixels/second. Of course, fast-flick 180-degrees can go, say, 5000 pixels/second horizontal panning speed, so at 500Hz, that's a 10 pixel amplitude of microstutter and at 1000Hz, a 5 pixel amplitude of microstutter. If you've eliminated all other motion clarity weak links, and you are fast at tracking your eyes, this actually begins to become a human noticeable factor.

If you've got a stuttery game, you won't tell the difference. But if you're playing perfect [email protected] VSYNC ON, with motion nirvana, the mouse becomes the fully weak link, and the 500Hz-vs-1000Hz difference becomes amplified during the point of zero blur/zero tearing/zero stutter/framerate==Hz. Most competitive players will do VSYNC OFF though, to reduce input lag even at the expense of tearing and stutters (Though you can get very close to the motion clarity of VSYNC ON using various tricks such as fps_max 360 in an attempt to keep frames more synchronized to the refresh rate, while keeping tearing reasonably in check.)

This is a big problem when frame rates vary, so you've got distance between the frame presentation times versus mouse poll times, which creates the microstutters when mouse smoothing is turned off. 1000Hz is also a way of giving hardware based mouse smoothing without the input lag of software-based mouse smoothing.

That said, human factors apply. Likewise, not everyone sees 60Hz vs 120Hz well, not everyone sees tearing, not everyone sees microstutter. I do, though.
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Re: 1000hz mouse

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 27 Jan 2014, 11:14

Here's another good test of 1000Hz mouse fluidity: Dragging windows in LightBoost mode.
First, make sure you have LightBoost (or ULMB or similiar strobe mode) turned ON, and you also turn OFF driver-based mouse smoothing (instructions varies from mouse to mouse).

Do the window drag test at 125Hz:

1. Set mouse poll rate to 125Hz, while in LightBoost mode
2. Drag this browser window medium-fast while trying to read text.
Drag mouse arrow left edge to right edge of screen over a 2 second period, about 1000 pixels/second
3. You can't.
The mouse microstutters prevents you being able to read text.

Now do the window drag test at 1000Hz:

1. Set mouse poll rate to 1000Hz while in LightBoost mode. (IMPORTANT: If using Windows 8.1, apply this fix too)
2. Drag this browser window medium-fast while trying to read text.
3. You can finally read text. It's more CRT sharp like http://www.testufo.com/framerates-text (seen in a stutterfree browser)
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       To support Blur Busters:
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raknarius
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Re: 1000hz mouse

Post by raknarius » 27 Jan 2014, 13:09

so does everyone agree the Logitech g700 is the best wireless mouse for under 1000 bucks?

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Re: 1000hz mouse

Post by sharknice » 27 Jan 2014, 13:55

raknarius wrote:so does everyone agree the Logitech g700 is the best wireless mouse for under 1000 bucks?
If you want the best make sure you get the G700S (note the S at the end), the G700 is the older model and uses an older sensor and buttons that don't last as long. Although the G700 is still very good so if you were able to get it at a very discounted price it may be worth it.

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Re: 1000hz mouse

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 27 Jan 2014, 13:56

raknarius wrote:so does everyone agree the Logitech g700 is the best wireless mouse for under 1000 bucks?
You mean under 100 bucks.
The Logitech G700S on Amazon.com is on sale for $75 right now.

I trust spacedivers' advice when it comes to mice, and if you really wanted to stick to wireless mice, this is definitely one of the better models I've been hearing about. If you need "wireless" and "gaming" in the same sentence as "mouse", you are wanting to look at this type of mouse. Sure, you need to recharge more, but that's the energy price of low-latency high-pollrate wireless.
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       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors

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