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G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.

Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby Vega » 23 Nov 2017, 13:45

So I can confirm this is working on the PG27VQ, was super easy.

There is an intermittent what appears to be black from or missed strobe sometimes, anyone know why that is? Does anyone use this mode for gaming? Seems that intermittent flicker would get pretty annoying.

Has anyone forward this info to NVIDIA? I don't see why they wouldn't just combine ULMB and G-Sync when we know it is technically possible. Unless they cannot resolve this flicker issue maybe...
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 23 Nov 2017, 14:47

I suspect they used this "tweak" during their VRR-strobed ULMB demo:
http://www.tomshardware.fr/articles/ulm ... 62461.html

From this Blur Busters article:
https://www.blurbusters.com/combining-b ... resh-rate/

It was only more recently that forum members here, discovered this "tweak".
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       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby Vega » 23 Nov 2017, 16:57

Weird, using this tweak it actually enabled Lightboost in my PG27VQ's menu. But then it randomly switched back to ULMB mode. :o
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby masterotaku » 24 Nov 2017, 03:00

That intermittent black frame problem happens to me when I overclock my monitor to >125Hz (so 126Hz or 127Hz because I can't get more).

Try doing a custom refresh rate of less than 120Hz with the same timings and check if it happens.

Also, what you have seen might be instead something that sometimes happens when you are consistently hitting the vsync limit (120fps at 120Hz). Try limiting fps to 110-115 and check if it still happens.

Inconsistent frame pacing can be another source of uneven flickering. Games like Dark Souls 1, 2, and 3 are perfect in this regard.

I'm glad that you came back with a compatible monitor, Vega :). Sorry for not knowing the non 3D Vision method that other time.
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby Vega » 24 Nov 2017, 10:19

This tweak has actually worked out quite well. Simply adding +5 to my VT locks the monitor into Lightboost mode (green LED) on my PG27VQ in-game and on desktop.

otaku, I'll mess around more with the refresh rates and see if I can get the flicker to go away, thanks.
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby click4dylan » 25 Nov 2017, 20:54

I just did this with my 240Hz, and I don't see the point. If i go below the refresh rate in FPS, I get constant black flickering, making gsync useless. I set the refresh rate to 144Hz with + 5 on the vertical total, turned on gsync and ULMB and it's just a flickering black mess in games. EDIT: it seems like the lower my FPS, the darker the screen. So if I get fps flucations, it's like the screen is going brighter and darker 24/7.

Also, trying to do this in windowed fullscreen causes the FPS to get capped at 30, with constant black flicker
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 25 Nov 2017, 21:50

click4dylan wrote:I just did this with my 240Hz, and I don't see the point. If i go below the refresh rate in FPS, I get constant black flickering, making gsync useless.

It doesn't work well for all games.
It's very bad in some games, but one has to understand what situations where it works well, and where it doesn't work well.

First, make sure you're able to you weild ULMB sword correctly without VRR. Then adding GSYNC+ULMB is a more complex sword to wield, but it is quite useful for the following:

-- GSYNC+ULMB should instead be treated like an improved low-lag strobed "VSYNC ON" mode that is framedrop-resistant (if you keep >100fps)
-- Put game on SSD instead of HDD to prevent disk-load flickering of VRR strobing
-- Make sure game is running at 100fps or faster most of the time. You want a 100fps-144fps VRR range, not a 30fps-144fps VRR range, when enabling strobed 144Hz VRR (ULMB+G-SYNC). The widest tolerable range is roughly ~60fps-144fps or ~75fps-144fps, since any lower framerates will flicker extremely uncomfortablye. We recommend no less than 100fps, however, so adjust your game so it never dips below 100fps, for fully enjoyable strobed ULMB.
-- Do not use VSYNC OFF with G-SYNC. ULMB works best with flat-out full-framerate VSYNC ON. (for the "supersmooth CRT motion clarity, Nintendo-smooth, butter-smooth, Sega-arcade-smooth, type of microstutter-free motion")
-- ULMB doesn't work well with crosshairs games or fixed-gaze tactics. It works better in games that forces you to fluidly move your eyes all over the screen (e.g. eye tracking in Rocket League, eye tracking during slow-turns in FPS (in FPS games where that tactic makes sense), low-altitude highspeed helicoptor flybys, etc). ULMB+G-SYNC is no different, you want to stick to games that forces eye-tracking tactics -- that's where ULMB gives you bigger competitive advantage. (This post explains why ULMB doesn't help crosshairs-gaze situations)

It looks wonderful too for custom ULMB fixed framerates too, such as emulators (strobed 60Hz at low-lag) and Quake type games (strobed 125Hz). G-SYNC is also good for low-lag custom frame rates.

Strobed VRR is good when you wield this (more complicated) sword correctly. Unfortunately, not all games play well for strobed VRR (ULMB + GSYNC). Remember to use a frame rate cap with G-SYNC, such as RivaTuner/RTSS 140fps -- to prevent sudden input-lag changes and to prevent apperance of tearing (e.g. if you're combining VRR with VSYNC OFF).

Remember, ULMB amplifies visibility of microstuttering. So use "high-consistent" framerates with ULMB. However, enabling VRR with ULMB, can make ULMB more forgiving of brief framedrops and slowdowns (e.g. 100-144fps range) in a fully micrstutter-free way with single-images (TestUFO-smooth motion in games). It also is important to use a very smooth 1000 Hz mouse with strobing, as mouse microstutters are also amplified with strobed modes (ULMB).

Ideally, one need to turn this feature on on a case-by-case basis. e.g. not permanently, but for specific games that works very well with it. Ideally, you never want to use GSYNC+ULMB at less than 100 frames per second for most people, and not less than 60 frames per second for most flicker-sensitive people (Some can tolerate down to 40 or 50).
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       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby enterprise24 » 27 Nov 2017, 09:55

Hi I just try ULMB+G-Sync on my S2716DG. Try +1 and +5 VT both are success. But I want to know how to force it to work on fullscreen mode. Currently need to play on borderless or forced via borderless gaming app.

Also I feel that sometimes ULMB+G-Sync feel laggy / stuttery despite frametime graph on MSI AB OSD show linear graph !!! While ULMB or G-Sync alone don't feel like this. I try RTSS limit FPS to 120 and enabled / disabled V-Sync in NVCP but no better.

Also what is the best combo settings ? Do I still need V-Sync on in NVCP and 2 FPS cap below refresh rate in game or RTSS like normal G-Sync setup ?

Any suggestions ? Thanks !!
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby RealNC » 27 Nov 2017, 13:10

enterprise24 wrote:Hi I just try ULMB+G-Sync on my S2716DG. Try +1 and +5 VT both are success. But I want to know how to force it to work on fullscreen mode. Currently need to play on borderless or forced via borderless gaming app.

Does this monitor do ULMB at 144Hz? If not, then in the NVCP, in the 3D settings section, set "preferred refresh rate" to application controlled. Otherwise, starting games will switch the monitor to 144Hz.
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Re: G-Sync and ULMB at the same time is in fact possible!

Postby Vega » 27 Nov 2017, 14:02

I haven't come across a game yet that didn't have the annoying flicker. That is with all the tweaks/tricks applied in this thread.
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