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Low refresh rate Single Strobing (60hz+) interest

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.

Re: Low refresh rate Single Strobing (60hz+) interest

Postby Dirkee » 23 May 2017, 16:23

Hey, I just found out about a new lg monitor with 1ms Blur Reduction, ips, and it's 75hz. It seems like a big upgrade over current monitors that can do 60hz strobing. I'm thinking of buying it. Does anyone else have it and can give impressions on it?

Here's the link: http://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-24MP59 ... ng-monitor
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Re: Low refresh rate Single Strobing (60hz+) interest

Postby RealNC » 23 May 2017, 16:42

Looks like a very good price point for IPS + strobing. Although you'd need to see if 75Hz strobing is flickering too much for you. But other than that, IPS + strobing for that price? Almost sounds too good to be true, actually.

For games and movies, I'd go for the 27" version though. I also have a 1080p 27" myself, and the low pixel density is OK for games/movies. It's just the desktop (font rendering) that suffers a bit.
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Re: Low refresh rate Single Strobing (60hz+) interest

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 23 May 2017, 16:50

Dirkee wrote:Hey, I just found out about a new lg monitor with 1ms Blur Reduction, ips, and it's 75hz. It seems like a big upgrade over current monitors that can do 60hz strobing. I'm thinking of buying it. Does anyone else have it and can give impressions on it?

Here's the link: http://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-24MP59 ... ng-monitor

I haven't tried this, but, generally, LG Blur Reduction double-strobes at 60Hz.

If you try this out, please let me know what http://www.testufo.com/crosstalk looks like. You will probably get double-images.
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Re: Low refresh rate Single Strobing (60hz+) interest

Postby Dirkee » 02 Jun 2017, 22:32

I bought the monitor and unfortunately the 1ms Blur Reduction only works on 75hz...
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Re: Low refresh rate Single Strobing (60hz+) interest

Postby 3dfan » 06 Aug 2017, 06:33

i dont think it should be technically or economically difficult for the manufaturers to allow 60hz single strobe, they may just hide it if they dont want everyone to use it, but please dont disallow it at all..
hoping manufacturers serioulsy consider this.
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Re: Low refresh rate Single Strobing (60hz+) interest

Postby RealNC » 06 Aug 2017, 09:15

60Hz flicker with backlight strobing on an LCD is much more uncomfortable than CRT 60Hz flicker though. I can tolerate 60Hz on CRT. It's not great, but I can stand it. 60Hz on LCD with strobing though is completely intolerable for me.

I'd say that 85Hz LCD strobing looks about the same as 60Hz CRT. Maybe a bit worse.

120Hz CRT has absolutely zero flicker (not even the tiniest, slightest hint of flicker,) while I can still see flicker on 120Hz LCD strobing.

I can completely understand why many manufacturers don't allow 60Hz blur reduction. I still don't agree with it (it should be user choice, even if the option is hidden,) but I completely understand why they do it.
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Re: Low refresh rate Single Strobing (60hz+) interest

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 07 Aug 2017, 18:08

Yes, monitor manufacturers needs to make it a choice (Even behind a "WARNING!" screen)

If I reduce brightness down (by 80%) via ultra-short pulse lengths, and sit further back -- 60Hz flicker isn't so bad in black-background games such as MAME. Ms. Pac Man doesn't hurt my eyes at 60Hz single-strobe. But a bright Windows desktop does.

Why is strobing harsher than CRT?
Strobe backlights can be harsher than CRT phosphor, due to
(1) square-wave pulsing instead of CRT decay, and
(2) all-at-once flashing rather than CRT scanning (*something* in your FOV is almost always illuminated)
That's why strobe backlights often ship at a higher refresh rate (120Hz+) for comfort.

Workarounds for improving comfort of 60Hz single-strobe
The workaround is certainly higher refresh rates, but you can make 60 Hz single-strobing more comfortable:
- Use less FOV; use a smaller monitor or move the monitor further back.
- Use much dimmer strobing (try ultra-short pulse lengths)
- And/or limit it to dark-background games (e.g. old-school arcade games).

Then it stops bothering my eyes.
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Re: Low refresh rate Single Strobing (60hz+) interest

Postby PanzerIV » 21 Feb 2018, 22:50

Falkentyne wrote:The Benq XL2730Z is very buggy, not only does Vertical Total changes not reduce strobe crosstalk at all even though you are extending the blanking interval, but any refresh rate lower than 120hz strobes at 8.3ms (120hz) timings, causing sync stuttering and an unusable display. And 60hz will double strobe (8.3ms timings).

The Benq XL2735 seems to fix the bugs in the XL2730Z, but at the cost of not having freesync. This may be a hardware limitation, but the XL2735 seems to function more like the old XL2720Z, but in 1440p format; VT tweaks work again, up to VT 1825, Strobe crosstalk is reduced considerably at 100hz and 120hz with it applied, but one thing is missing:
Damn, I did not know I had a garbage monitor even though it was super expensive :( So you mean that unless I change my monitor for a newer BenQ or better if some other manufacturer have improved uppon BenQ in the last 2 years, I will never be able to use the (Vertical Total) fix or to use motion blur at 100Hz since it is hard to keep up with 120FPS on the latest AAA title such as Battlefield 1 when playing in 2560x1440? Man that is such a deal-breaker that it's unusable on the XL2730Z under 120Hz as it is so taxing on the system even with an highly overclocked GTX1080 & i5 8600K at 5.0Ghz
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Re: Low refresh rate Single Strobing (60hz+) interest

Postby lexlazootin » 22 Feb 2018, 02:29

Falkentyne wrote:The Benq XL2730Z is very buggy, not only does Vertical Total changes not reduce strobe crosstalk at all even though you are extending the blanking interval, but any refresh rate lower than 120hz strobes at 8.3ms (120hz) timings, causing sync stuttering and an unusable display. And 60hz will double strobe (8.3ms timings).


I seriously think this shit is bullshit. does Benq do anything correctly?

I was also burned when i got my XL2420G for $800aud which was one of the first G-Sync monitors, it could switch between G-Sync and "Classic Engine" which was just benq's hardware. When i first got it i had a AMD card and i couldn't use the G-Sync chip and it was garbage. The Overdrive was trash, Color was awful and half of the settings were greyed out in the OSD on my TOP OF THE LINE most expensive benq monitor. It was a stab in the heart. It wasn't till i got my Nvidia card and switched it i absolutely loved the monitor which fixed ALL of the problems.

I find it disgusting that Benq is still so trash at doing the one thing they do.
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Re: Low refresh rate Single Strobing (60hz+) interest

Postby Falkentyne » 10 Mar 2018, 19:24

PanzerIV wrote:
Falkentyne wrote:The Benq XL2730Z is very buggy, not only does Vertical Total changes not reduce strobe crosstalk at all even though you are extending the blanking interval, but any refresh rate lower than 120hz strobes at 8.3ms (120hz) timings, causing sync stuttering and an unusable display. And 60hz will double strobe (8.3ms timings).

The Benq XL2735 seems to fix the bugs in the XL2730Z, but at the cost of not having freesync. This may be a hardware limitation, but the XL2735 seems to function more like the old XL2720Z, but in 1440p format; VT tweaks work again, up to VT 1825, Strobe crosstalk is reduced considerably at 100hz and 120hz with it applied, but one thing is missing:
Damn, I did not know I had a garbage monitor even though it was super expensive :( So you mean that unless I change my monitor for a newer BenQ or better if some other manufacturer have improved uppon BenQ in the last 2 years, I will never be able to use the (Vertical Total) fix or to use motion blur at 100Hz since it is hard to keep up with 120FPS on the latest AAA title such as Battlefield 1 when playing in 2560x1440? Man that is such a deal-breaker that it's unusable on the XL2730Z under 120Hz as it is so taxing on the system even with an highly overclocked GTX1080 & i5 8600K at 5.0Ghz


You can't even use blur reduction under 120hz.
This was even mentioned in TFTCentral's review of the XL2730Z.
The monitor strobes at 8.3ms timings at 100hz, causing an out of sync image. Benq claimed that this was not fixable, and I wrote more than one long email complaining about this to them, and eventually got the attention of someone named Lisa (IIRC). Even Chief tried to reach out to them. The scaler used on that monitor was the Realtek 2796B. The VT tweaks "work" in as much as the scaler recognizes that the VT Was changed (you can even see it in the factory menu (not the service menu, the "other" hidden menu), but the higher VT is completely ignored for strobing purposes).

The XL2735, which does not allow 60hz single strobing (don't even think 85hz single strobes either) did fix the 100hz strobing and VT tweaks work up to 1825 (1852 if you reduce the horizontal total), and crosstalk is reduced substantially. 144hz can also use an increased VT, but not by much; I believe not anything higher than 1550 will work without going out of range, so that won't do much. The scaler here is the 2796BF, which is the same used in the XL2540 and XL2546. This monitor from the VERY TINY feedback I've gotten from ONE PERSON who took the time to test it (amazing, in 2 years no one has even been willing to test stuff after they buy it?), apparently acts like the XL2720Z does with the Single Strobe service menu setting disabled (off): that is, it double strobes at 60hz and 85hz.

I do NOT know if any newer versions of the XL2730Z or the Zowie rebranded one fixed this issues. I do not own any of these monitors and all of my information is from other people's posts. I am unable to do anything without access to hardware. I don't work for any companies (Don't even have a job), no one sends me hardware to test, so I cant do anything except watch and learn. I have an XL2720Z, the one with the Mstar scalers.
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