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Does Overdrive and ULMB add Input Lag?

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.

Does Overdrive and ULMB add Input Lag?

Postby andimoon » 21 Apr 2017, 22:00

Hey guys,

I just watched a Vidoe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfxS2Z8PAUQ) and hes saying that Overdrive and ULMB adds Input Lag, is this true? I saw an ULMB monitor by someone else and I was really impressed. At the moment i own a 144 Hz monitor.

Thanks in advance :mrgreen:
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Re: Does Overdrive and ULMB add Input Lag?

Postby Haste » 21 Apr 2017, 22:27

Hey there,

There is a lot of misinformation throughout that video. So take it with a grain of salt.

Now to answer your questions:

- ULMB does add a bit of input lag, but it's a pretty small amount. (a couple milliseconds)

- Overdrive does not add input lag.
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Re: Does Overdrive and ULMB add Input Lag?

Postby andimoon » 21 Apr 2017, 23:07

Hey, thanks dude :)

So I read the article here on BlurBusters within G-Sync Input Lag. So from this, when set correct G-Sync does not add input lag as well right ? :)

Thanks a lot!
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Re: Does Overdrive and ULMB add Input Lag?

Postby Haste » 21 Apr 2017, 23:54

Yep.

If your frame rate is below the max refresh rate, G-Sync has no more input lag than Vsync OFF would have for the same frame rate.
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Re: Does Overdrive and ULMB add Input Lag?

Postby RealNC » 22 Apr 2017, 01:35

If the game doesn't have a built-in low latency frame limiter and you're forced to use RTSS as the limiter, then g-sync is going to have 1 frame of input lag (because RTSS will add that lag.) This is still much better than vsync though.
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Re: Does Overdrive and ULMB add Input Lag?

Postby lexlazootin » 22 Apr 2017, 02:03

I just want to add to the ULMB input latency answer.

ULMB doesn't push out the frame any later, the black light is simply black while the frame is being drawn. because this process of drawing the frame takes a couple of milliseconds (3-4ms) it technically adds latency before you can see the frame but it doesn't add "Input lag"
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Re: Does Overdrive and ULMB add Input Lag?

Postby RealNC » 22 Apr 2017, 02:17

Btw, I play some games in ULMB mode at 120Hz, and even though on paper it adds some tiny lag, I can't tell any of it. It feels just like normal.

So in theory ULMB adds some tiny lag. In practice, you feel no input lag.
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Re: Does Overdrive and ULMB add Input Lag?

Postby andimoon » 22 Apr 2017, 08:15

Thanks for your answers guys. Because this guy on this video also says that g-sync reduces input lag :)

So and the RTSS limiter is nothing else than just a fps limiter for games which hasn't a fps limiter in their console / menu options?

Thanks guys!
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Re: Does Overdrive and ULMB add Input Lag?

Postby andimoon » 02 May 2017, 19:30

Hey,

I have one more question again :) Since I read about the new strobe utility I would really like to know which monitor is currently the best in motion blur (without ghosting / crosstalk / strobetalk)? Is the XL2720 with the new software superior to the XL2540? Or are there better "alternatives"? I really want the best results of motion blur and it's even more impossible than WQHD or IPS or something.

I also read about VTweaks? But I can't explain what this is even while read the article here: https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3343

So, does this mean that I change my resolution from 1920x1080 to a resolution with (virtual) more pixels in height ?

I also found @the benq xl2540 a new model number 9H.LG9LB.QBE ( the "old" one is 9H.LFNLB.QBE ). Do you know something about that ?
And how about the 24GM77 (24GM79B)? I'm interested only on 120+ Hz strobing in general while I dont play with a console @ PC for example...
Thanks a lot !!! :)

Edit 1: But I also don't want use Lightboost hack, while I used this in the past and contrast / colors were extremly bad in comparison to ULMB for example. Thanks! :)

Edit 2: Oh I think I just found the difference between "old" and "new" Benq 2540 (9H.LG9LB.QBE). The newer has Dynamic Accuracy (DyAc) Technology. But when I compare the xl2735 with ufo screens from ulmb for example. But also what I read from DyAc is that the Strobing on the Full HD monitors still are better?
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Re: Does Overdrive and ULMB add Input Lag?

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 02 May 2017, 20:49

andimoon wrote:Is the XL2720 with the new software superior to the XL2540?

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Via equivalent adjustments (via monitor menus instead of via strobe utility) -- the XL2540 is able to create a mostly strobe-crosstalk-free 144Hz mode on the XL2540, while you cannot do that on any of the -11, -20, -30, or -35 suffixed monitors from BenQ/Zowie. This is because the XL2540 and XL2546 are both capable of even larger vertical totals than the monitors supported by Strobe Utility. However, instead of using Strobe Utility, you adjust via the monitor menus.

andimoon wrote:Or are there better "alternatives"? I really want the best results of motion blur and it's even more impossible than WQHD or IPS or something.

You've already tried a blur reduction (strobe backlight) mode before? If not, you might prefer one of the easier pre-calibrated ones.

andimoon wrote:I also read about VTweaks? But I can't explain what this is even while read the article here: https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3343

Don't base your monitor buying decision based on this post. ;)

andimoon wrote:So, does this mean that I change my resolution from 1920x1080 to a resolution with (virtual) more pixels in height ?

It's not increased vertical resolution. It's increased vertical total.

Virtually, yes it's kind of like offscreen pixels -- but these have always existed in all video signals since the 1930s as "synchronization signals". The vertical sync stuff is metaphorically a hidden black bar above/below the bottom edge of your screen.

Image

If you are a kid who's grown up in the 1970s, you'll remember old analog TVs that had rolling picture because of misadjusted VHOLD -- a rolling picture with a black bar separating the refresh cycles. The "vertical total" is the height of the active picture PLUS the thickness of that black bar.

If you're already familiar with that -- then a bigger vertical total, simply means adding more time to separate the refresh cycles. The number of scanlines per second go faster to achieve the same refresh rate, meaning less time spent scanning visible picture and more time spent scanning off-screen (the synchronization signal) -- which today, digitally, just simply translates to a bigger pause between refresh cycles.

This is a synchronization signal, the vertical blanking interval. More information can be found in the Custom Resolution Utility glossary (it uses the calendar metaphor to describe the shape of a video signal, from a CRU perspective).

Again, don't base your monitor buying decision based on this info.

This knowledge is only useful for blur reduction strobe backlights requiring manual calibration such as on several BenQ/Zowie monitors. This knowledge is not necessary for automatically pre-calibrated strobe backlights such as ULMB or LightBoost which is pre-calibrated by the manufacturer.

andimoon wrote:I also found @the benq xl2540 a new model number 9H.LG9LB.QBE ( the "old" one is 9H.LFNLB.QBE ). Do you know something about that ?

That's XL2540 versus XL2546
- BenQ Zowie XL2540
- BenQ Zowie XL2546

They both have strobe backlights. The former needs to enable it via the service menu (unbranded strobe backlight), while the latter is easier to enable via main monitor menus (branded DyAC).

andimoon wrote:And how about the 24GM77 (24GM79B)?

From user reports, it has among the worst strobe crosstalk, and it has no strobe calibration capabilities (like BenQ/Zowie are able to). Far worse double-image-effect than ULMB / LightBoost / DyAC.

LG has already been notified by me, and hopefully their engineers will release new monitors that solves this.

andimoon wrote:I'm interested only on 120+ Hz strobing in general

Since you have LightBoost experience, if you're willing to spend hours (it can take more than 1 hour to fiddle with Vertical Totals & calibrate a strobe backlight) -- one of the lowest strobe crosstalk monitors available at 120Hz+ is certainly the XL2540/XL2546 since they can be tweaked to do a faster 1/240sec scanout velocity at 120Hz (more time to strobe between the refresh cycles -- creating less strobe crosstalk -- less double image effects).

Obviously you cannot strobe at the monitor's maximum refresh rate (reduced totals / reduced blanking) without massive strobe crosstalk, but you can certainly get pretty close to LightBoost-quality (and sometimes bypass it) in low strobe crosstalk. The ability to do 1/240sec LCD scanouts at 120Hz, leaves plenty of room between the refresh cycles for the strobe backlight, to minimize strobe crosstalk.
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