165 Hz 2560x1440 Curved 27" G-Sync TN - Asus PG27VQ

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
Vega
Posts: 193
Joined: 18 Dec 2013, 21:33

165 Hz 2560x1440 Curved 27" G-Sync TN - Asus PG27VQ

Post by Vega » 21 Nov 2017, 15:36

Image

Panel Size : Wide Screen 27.0"(68.47cm) Auto
Color Saturation : 72%(NTSC)
Panel Backlight / Type : TN
True Resolution : 2560x1440
Display Viewing Area(HxV) : 596.74 x 335.66 mm
Display Surface Non-glare
Pixel Pitch : 0.233mm
Brightness(Max) : 400 cd/㎡
Contrast Ratio (Max) : 1000:1
Viewing Angle (CR≧10) : 170°(H)/160°(V)
Response Time : 1ms (Gray to Gray)
Display Colors : 16.7M
Flicker free
LCD ZBD Warranty : Yes
Curved Panel : 1800R

Vega
Posts: 193
Joined: 18 Dec 2013, 21:33

Re: 165 Hz 2560x1440 Curved 27" G-Sync TN - Asus PG27VQ

Post by Vega » 21 Nov 2017, 15:37

Here is my quick overview of the PG27VQ versus the PG278QR:

1. Curve! - Obviously the largest difference. At first I thought 27" 16:9 curved would be a bit of a gimmick, but after having used it some hours now I do prefer it. Granted, I have always preferred curved screens so this will be personal preference.

2. AR film - unfortunately the same matte film applied to seemingly every TN panel these days.

3. Backlight uniformity - VQ struggles a little bit on the left and right edges compared to the more uniform QR.

4. Backlight bleed - slightly more on the VQ, but nothing egregious such as on most IPS-type gaming displays.

5. Response time - This one I was hoping would be slightly better, but I found identical to the QR at around ~4.8ms MPRT. Supposedly there is new iteration TN technology coming out in Q2 2018 that can lower MPRT down to the ~3ms range.

6. Monitor overclocks flawlessly just like the QR.

7. Back case lighting, as does the image shooting down from the stand. I turn those off first thing. I use a true bias lighting system.

8. OSD - controls/joystick on the back right hand side are still top notch. ASUS has my favorite control system.

9. Stand - quite sturdy / tri-pod design. Although I quickly put it on my VESA arm. If I kept it on the stand I probably would have liked another inch in height adjustment.

10. Monitor feels sturdy and gives a feeling of quality.

11. Neither monitor had any dust, stuck or dead pixels.

12. Backlight - flicker free and this baby can get up to ~400 cd/m2.

13. ULMB - A dream on this monitor. Actually usable during the day as it can reach ~300 cd/m2! You set your brightness to 100% and then control luminosity with the backlight pulse duration. This allows the most clarity possibly under varying light conditions. Night time ~120 cd/m2 brightness is around the 35 pulse width setting, allowing for sub 1ms pulse duration for exceptional motion clarity. Strobe ghosting is also minimal on the display, given the fact ULMB pairs the best with TN panels due to their speed. Most of the strobe cross-talk is limited to the bottom 1/3rd of the screen, allowing for the center-top to be the clearest (preferred). One slight disappointment is that ULMB is capped at 120 Hz. I would have preferred 144 Hz as an option along with 100/120. 120 is still perfectly fine and so far this monitor is the best motion clarity experience yet I've had for gaming.

14. Viewing angles - normal TN characteristic from top to bottom. For the sides, a bit of contrast shift that I believe is exasperated by the slight loss of brightness on either side edge.

Final thoughts - If you want superior image quality, go with an OLED 4K TV. If you want "ok" image quality in the realm of the maximum quality LCD can provide, go with a high end VA or IPS (with the obvious speed/clarity trade-offs). If you want the best ULMB gaming experience, the PG27VQ is your huckleberry.

I'll play around and see how the display handles the ULMB+G-Sync attempt.

Vega
Posts: 193
Joined: 18 Dec 2013, 21:33

Re: 165 Hz 2560x1440 Curved 27" G-Sync TN - Asus PG27VQ

Post by Vega » 21 Nov 2017, 19:53

BTW, anyone remember how to get a monitor to stay in ULMB mode when exiting a game to the desktop? I thought there was a way to fix that but I haven't messed with it in years. Having to constantly switch back to ULMB on this monitor through the OSD is super annoying.

User avatar
RealNC
Site Admin
Posts: 3741
Joined: 24 Dec 2013, 18:32
Contact:

Re: 165 Hz 2560x1440 Curved 27" G-Sync TN - Asus PG27VQ

Post by RealNC » 22 Nov 2017, 05:00

Enable ULMB on the desktop prior to starting the game? Haven't tried it, but should work.
SteamGitHubStack Overflow
The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.

Vega
Posts: 193
Joined: 18 Dec 2013, 21:33

Re: 165 Hz 2560x1440 Curved 27" G-Sync TN - Asus PG27VQ

Post by Vega » 22 Nov 2017, 10:02

Ya I always have it on the desktop before I start a game. G-Sync is off and ULMB is selected in NVIDIA control panel. Whenever I go into a game it stays in ULMB. The problem is when I exit a game back to the desktop, it kicks it out of ULMB mode. Strange!

User avatar
masterotaku
Posts: 436
Joined: 20 Dec 2013, 04:01

Re: 165 Hz 2560x1440 Curved 27" G-Sync TN - Asus PG27VQ

Post by masterotaku » 24 Nov 2017, 03:12

With my PG278QR, I never get out of ULMB mode outside of the rare case of the monitor being asleep and then waking up. It sometimes has ULMB disabled completely and I have to reconnect it.

More annoying for me is closing a game in 3D Vision and Lightboost being stuck. It's annoying because it has more brightness (the Lightboost setting doesn't control strobe length. It's bullshit, it's just brightness). Usually the cure is opening Chrome and pressing F11 twice.

In the end, your new monitor is just a curved PG278QR. It could be nice to counter the fish eye effect of high FOV, I guess. Being close to the monitor while playing in 3D mostly solves it in my case.

Is your ULMB really that bright? More than the PG278QR? Sounds great. I use PW 45 and it's enough for me, but I admit that it's a bit dark sometimes.
CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
RAM: GSkill Ripjaws Z 3866MHz CL19
Motherboard: Gigabyte Gaming M5 Z270
Monitor: Asus PG278QR

Vega
Posts: 193
Joined: 18 Dec 2013, 21:33

Re: 165 Hz 2560x1440 Curved 27" G-Sync TN - Asus PG27VQ

Post by Vega » 24 Nov 2017, 10:22

Ya I am experimenting with Lightboost vs ULMB. IE: if you adjust the Lightboost amount, is it not affecting pulse width like ULMB? Just brightening and dimming the LED's at a fixed pulse? I guess with MPRT's this fast though I may not make a whole lot of motion clarity difference.

Vega
Posts: 193
Joined: 18 Dec 2013, 21:33

Re: 165 Hz 2560x1440 Curved 27" G-Sync TN - Asus PG27VQ

Post by Vega » 24 Nov 2017, 12:37

Interesting results in my tests. Lightboost is indeed fixed strobe, so dimming the display gives no motion clarity benefits.

ULMB of course you control the brightness of the display by the pulse width. My biggest takeaway though is for some reason Lightboost has less strobe-cross talk. Not sure why, if it has to do with the overdrive settings etc..

Both in Lightboost and ULMB the overdrive setting is locked out on the PG27VQ. So basically it is ULMB with clearer motion with more strobe cross-talk or Lightboost with less clear motion but less strobe cross-talk.

In Lightboost mode, I can keep the monitor 100% in that mode in game and on desktop due to the +5 VT change. ULMB on this monitor keeps kicking off once you leave any game and get back to the desktop.

Does anyone know if ULMB is triggered by VT change too or is it just monitor OSD specific?

User avatar
Chief Blur Buster
Site Admin
Posts: 11648
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 15:44
Location: Toronto / Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: 165 Hz 2560x1440 Curved 27" G-Sync TN - Asus PG27VQ

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 24 Nov 2017, 16:51

Vega wrote:5. Response time - This one I was hoping would be slightly better, but I found identical to the QR at around ~4.8ms MPRT. Supposedly there is new iteration TN technology coming out in Q2 2018 that can lower MPRT down to the ~3ms range.
MPRT isn't GtG. Are you sure you're not confusing MPRT with GtG?

GtG = transition of pixel value from one color to the next
MPRT = the amount of time a pixel stays illuminated

MPRT of 165Hz, from sample and hold mathematics (excluding GtG), is 1/165sec = 6ms. However, one direction can be faster than the other (e.g. black-to-white versus white-to-black). So if you are measuring MPRT via http://www.testufo.com/mprt you must measure black-on-white, then white-on-black, then average the two values together for a reliable MPRT-by-human-eye measurement.

Also, you must measure to the centerpoint of the blur (so make sure the white squares are the same size as black squares), as the asymmetricness of GtG can affect the blurring-gradient of vertical edges in the MPRT test, putting 10-20% error into the MPRT test. However, the MPRT test is remarkably accurate in most situations involving an LCD screen.

Also, when a strobe backlight mode is enabled, MPRT falls dramatically. MPRT is equal to strobe length, which is influenced by the "ULMB Pulse Width" adjustment. The MPRT goes as low as 0.25ms on these monitors but the picture is extremely dim.
Comfortable-brightness MPRTs are usually 1ms-1.5ms for ULMB mode, but brighter (300cd/m2) strobe backlights can achieve MPRTs of 0.5ms-0.75ms with quite usable brightness at night.

Any variations from this, is pretty much error margin or flawed measurement methodology, or confusion between GtG with MPRT (one is not supposed to subtract GtG from MPRT -- since slower GtG always increases MPRT). If an LCD panel manufacturer is starting to claim lower MPRTs, and if it was a correctly accurate measurement -- they did it because they measured via a higher refresh rate, or via strobing. It's simple law of physics.

Note: How MPRT incorporate strobe crosstalk is undefined (there's no mathematic standard how to convert strobe crosstalk into a number) but as long as strobe crosstalk is not human-noticeable in screen center during most gaming, then strobe crosstalk isn't part of MPRT calculations.

You can get lower MPRTs in one direction than the other from asymmetric GtG (because of asymmetric pixel transition speeds) which can shorten a pixel color's visibility at the expense at prolonging the pixel different-color's visibility in adjacent refresh cycles. That's why if you get too-low numbers (e.g. 5ms from 165Hz) during unstrobed, that's because they measured MPRT in only one-color-transition direction. That's not averaged MPRT. Cheating. (manufacturers do it too)

TL;DR:
Unstrobed: True average MPRT is the refresh cycle length, minimum. Sample and hold duration.
Strobed: True average MPRT is the strobe length, minimum. 2ms flash = 2ms MPRT
MPRT numbers is the same thing as persistence numbers. 2ms persistence = 2ms MPRT

Vega wrote: 13. ULMB - A dream on this monitor. Actually usable during the day as it can reach ~300 cd/m2! You set your brightness to 100% and then control luminosity with the backlight pulse duration. This allows the most clarity possibly under varying light conditions. Night time ~120 cd/m2 brightness is around the 35 pulse width setting, allowing for sub 1ms pulse duration for exceptional motion clarity.

Yep, see above. MPRT is strobe length in ULMB mode.
Vega wrote:If you want the best ULMB gaming experience, the PG27VQ is your huckleberry.
Yes, the best 1440p ULMB experience, yes. If you're wanting CRT clarity with 1440p, this monitor hits a home-run achieving sub-1ms persistence (MPRT) while still having >100cd/m2!

But you can get even less strobe crosstalk with a 240Hz ULMB monitor thanks to their faster scan velocity and longer VBIs (more time for LCD GtG to settle between refresh cycles, for crosstalk-free strobing) -- they're all now about 300cd/m2 too -- and they support 144Hz strobing. The 240Hz monitors have 120Hz/144Hz ULMB able to achieve sub-1ms persistence (MPRT) while still being brighter than 100cd/m2.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

Image
Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

User avatar
masterotaku
Posts: 436
Joined: 20 Dec 2013, 04:01

Re: 165 Hz 2560x1440 Curved 27" G-Sync TN - Asus PG27VQ

Post by masterotaku » 24 Nov 2017, 17:02

Vega wrote:Interesting results in my tests. Lightboost is indeed fixed strobe, so dimming the display gives no motion clarity benefits.
Just what I expected to happen. One of the very few flaws I can find about G-Sync monitors.
Vega wrote:My biggest takeaway though is for some reason Lightboost has less strobe-cross talk. Not sure why, if it has to do with the overdrive settings etc..
Lightboost is specifically made for 3D, so it makes sense (what doesn't make sense is not using that overdrive setting for ULMB). With some tweaks it's possible to use ULMB in 3D instead of Lightboost. The 3D crosstalk in ULMB is a quite a lot worse. Little overdrive differences in 2D can make great differences in 3D. It's still fun to use with very low custom refresh rates, for testing.
Vega wrote: In Lightboost mode, I can keep the monitor 100% in that mode in game and on desktop due to the +5 VT change.
Yeah, that's the side effect of the G-Sync+ULMB tweak: Lightboost at desktop.
Vega wrote:Does anyone know if ULMB is triggered by VT change too or is it just monitor OSD specific?
"Triggered", I don't know. But "available", I know. It all depends on the resulting pixel clock. That's how you can use ULMB at custom refresh rates. In my PG278QR, minimum was 37Hz and maximum was 127Hz (125Hz for G-Sync+ULMB or I get some complately black frames smetimes).
CPU: Intel Core i7 7700K @ 4.9GHz
GPU: Gainward Phoenix 1080 GLH
RAM: GSkill Ripjaws Z 3866MHz CL19
Motherboard: Gigabyte Gaming M5 Z270
Monitor: Asus PG278QR

Post Reply