Ghosting?

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
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Oneo
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Ghosting?

Post by Oneo » 03 Feb 2018, 01:26

Hi,
I recently started noticing that my monitor leaves some kind of ghosting for like half a second, it's more like a black trail than anything.
However, this only happens when i increase my Monitor's response time, which is weird, because i'm 100% sure that it was always on "fastest" (goes from Standard, Faster, Fastest) and this never happened before.
Primary examples can be noticable in any game (when scrolling down a page on any browser, it can be visible too), but in Overwatch is more noticeable, since i move around a lot, it's way more visible. Putting it into "Faster" really knocks down the experience because the game seems way slower, which i don't really like.
My monitor is a Samsung, 60hz, hopefully is not against the rules to post about shitty non-gaming monitors lol, i just want to know my problem. Should i just buy a new *good* monitor or can it just be the cable like some people point out?
I'm sorry for the quality, but i'm sure it can be seen.
Thanks for the possible help.
https://imgur.com/a/D5Uyy

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RealNC
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Re: Ghosting?

Post by RealNC » 03 Feb 2018, 04:10

This is normal, and it's actually exactly what it is supposed to do. It's its job, so to speak. It needs to push pixel response times to the maximum, sacrificing motion quality. Doing that results in what is known as "reverse ghosting", or "overshoot."

And it's worse when the monitor has been just turned on. If you let the monitor warm up for 20 minutes or so, it gets a bit better. (Cold LCD pixels are slower than warm ones.)

The middle/medium setting is the one that balances response time against overshoot. You don't get much improvement with the highest setting anyway. We're talking just 1 or 2ms differences here. So it's best to use the medium setting.

Also note that this setting does not improve input lag, actually. Pixel response time affects ghosting, but input lag is not affected much at all. So it's best to stick to the setting that results in the least amount of blur and ghosting.
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lexlazootin
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Re: Ghosting?

Post by lexlazootin » 03 Feb 2018, 04:10

It's overdrive. pixel response times can be lowered by shooting it with extra voltage, shoot to much voltage and the pixel will overshoot and leave you with inverted ghosting. Maybe the temperature in your room has changed so the pixel response is a little different and you see more ghosting, or maybe you're just noticing it more.

Just lower the setting one notch and you should be fine.

https://testufo.com/ghosting

Oneo
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Re: Ghosting?

Post by Oneo » 03 Feb 2018, 12:00

Thanks a lot, you guys. I'm gonna try and stick with the medium setting in that case, while it feels slower, it's way less distracting.

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: Ghosting?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 03 Feb 2018, 17:01

Yes,

See LCD Motion Artifacts and LCD Overdrive Artifacts for some examples of artifacts caused by overdrive. It's quite common and needs tweaking to decide which works best for your particular display.

For people who dislike overdrive artifacts a lot:
Another trick to reduce this problem is intentionally reducing your dynamic range: Brighten your blacks and darken your whites slightly. 90% dynamic range works. This helps the overdrive overshoot room at both the top/bottom ends, reducing ghosting during middling overdrive settings. The lack of overdrive overshoot room for darkest and brightest shades, creates different ghosting artifacts for those shades than for middle color shades, so the reduction of dynamic range (if you hate ghosting so much that you're willing to sacrifce 10% of your color gamut to improve ghosting). In addition to improving overdrive, this also works for reducing strobe crosstalk too. Most of the time, most people prefer better colors, so one has to put up with this.
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Oneo
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Re: Ghosting?

Post by Oneo » 03 Feb 2018, 20:50

Thanks a lot for the quick reply, Chief, much obliged for the info.

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RealNC
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Re: Ghosting?

Post by RealNC » 04 Feb 2018, 06:35

Oneo wrote:while it feels slower
lol. Sure.

Dude, seriously. Overdrive amounts to virtually no input lag difference, especially between medium and max settings.
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Re: Ghosting?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 04 Feb 2018, 13:30

Well, it's a Pandora's Box you don't want to open....

The way the human eye reacts at a specific point of the GtG curve, means that overdrive can affect lag differences at the single-millisecond-or-two scales (sometimes more).

It's less important to average players, but in some situations, overdrive adjustments on certain LCD technologies (e.g. VA panels) sometimes affect input lag of GtG90% completeness by much more than that -- but that is an exception rather than the rule. On TN, overdrive adjustments only create minor differences in input lag to GtG10%, GtG50%, and GtG90% points in the GtG curve.

Perceptually, you might react more quickly on the artifact than the actual moving object itself, e.g. unusually bright coronas. If there's an unusually strong GtG peak (e.g. unusually bright coronas) that may affect lagfeel significantly even if the input lag of the actual object isn't changed, if you're reacting to the artifact more quickly than to the actual moving image itself. Coronas can be unusually bright in some overdrive settings -- brighter than the original image.

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Electronic measured input lag (e.g. GtG50% trigger) is very different from human reaction time sometimes. Perceptual stuff can be tricky, lag-wise.
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Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

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