Monitor motion blur (XL2540)

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
ayeTop
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Monitor motion blur (XL2540)

Post by ayeTop » 20 Sep 2018, 18:23

I don't know if this is normal but, when I look around in any games its super blurry. I took pictures and I see multiple images. Some people said that is caused by your phone and i'm not sure. Can someone tell me if this video and screenshots are normal? Am I just tripping?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bMjJZh ... e=youtu.be

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... 200013.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... 200003.jpg

If it is a problem its not the gpu because i've replaced it with a 1080ti and its not the monitor because i've switch between 3 monitors and still had the same issue. I've gotten a new motherboard too. I'm thinking it could be the pre-build lenovo pc parts that I still haven't replaced with new parts from my pc.

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Re: Monitor motion blur (XL2540)

Post by RealNC » 20 Sep 2018, 21:46

Well, if you take a picture or video of your hand while you're moving it fast across the camera, it's gonna be blurry. Or if you just shake the camera around while taking the footage. So yes, movement looking blurry in photos or videos is normal.

Taking a photo of the actual blur of a monitor is more difficult than just pointing a camera at it. You need to move the camera at the same speed as the object that is moving on the screen. The pursuit camera track on the ghosting test:

https://www.testufo.com/ghosting

helps with that.

The method is called "pursuit camera" and is described here:

https://www.blurbusters.com/motion-test ... it-camera/

Some people are able to do this by hand without special equipment, but it's difficult and requires many tries.
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Re: Monitor motion blur (XL2540)

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 21 Sep 2018, 12:16

ayeTop wrote:I don't know if this is normal but, when I look around in any games its super blurry. I took pictures and I see multiple images. Some people said that is caused by your phone and i'm not sure. Can someone tell me if this video and screenshots are normal? Am I just tripping?
These images cannot be used for diagnosis.
It's not possible for me to judge these images as they need to be caught in a very special way (pursuit camera).

If using a Blur Reduction mode (Factory Menu), then strobe crosstalk diagnosis can be done by static imagery if exposing only one refresh cycle. However, moving imagery is subject to frame duration time.

For the majority of displays, the higher the framerate, the less motion blur to a point.
1. Disable the game's motion blur (if game has motion blur)
2. Adjust your monitor overdrive (see LCD Motion Artifacts 101).
3. Keep framerates as high as possible, 240fps@240Hz has half the motion blur of 120fps@120Hz. Upgrades & game detail adjustments.
4. Use a blur reduction mode.
5. Fix your mouse microstutters.
Microstutters can amplify motion blur (and/or make blur reduction "too jittery") especially if there's a lot of rapid microstutters that's fast enough to blend into extra unwanted motion blur.

Blur reduction modes such as ULMB and DyAc or BenQ Blur Reduction can actually produce motion clarity not otherwise normally possible for a given refresh rate.
Image

You won't have less blur at 60fps on a 240Hz monitor than on a 60Hz monitor. 60fps@240Hz is as blurry as 60fps@60Hz unfortunately! Life doesn't work that way. You have to either (A) raise your framerate to match refresh rate, or (B) use a motion blur reduction mode such as ULMB or DyAc.

Your XL2540 has a Blur Reduction mode too
Since you are using the XL2540, you may optinally check out Strobe Utility but remember it will work better at lower Hz (e.g. 144Hz Blur Reduction at 240Hz). due to a phenomenon called "strobe crosstalk" (See Advanced Strobe Crosstalk FAQ) and try a custom 182 Hz mode or the Appendix A suggestions. Strobe Utility benefits the 144Hz BenQ's more than the 240Hz BenQs, and it takes a bit of complicated tweaking to maximize benefits.
- Try XL2540 with Blur Reduction between ~120Hz-180Hz
- Apply Large Vertical Total to reduce the strobe crosstalk double-image effects.
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Re: Monitor motion blur (XL2540)

Post by ayeTop » 21 Sep 2018, 23:50

I did what u said here are the results: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... 213024.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... 213023.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCm5BV2 ... e=youtu.be

It felt better. Still a blurry but its better. I'm pretty sure thats normal blur. But, I don't get why I have to turn on blur reduction when its not suppose to be blurry at all with a 240hz. Does it look normal in the video and pictures? I've never seen someone's 240hz/144hz. I don't know if this is normal.

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Re: Monitor motion blur (XL2540)

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 23 Sep 2018, 08:51

Unfortunately 240Hz is not the final frontier.

You should be at best, getting approximately 1/4th the motion blur of a very 60Hz display -- that's the motion blur improvement ratio you should be getting. If you feel you are only getting slightly less blur, then there may be other motion blur weak links. There is a case for fixing as many weak links as possible so that you can get the theoretical best (lowest possible motion blur)

But if you were hoping to eliminate 100% of motion blur when you got only 75% less motion blur, then it's important to adjust expectations. Doubling Hz+fps only halves motion blur (barring any other weak links like LCD GtG pixel response time)

Higher Hz doesn't help low frame rates

Also, remember if your frame rate is only 120 frames per second, you will only get 50% less motion blur than 60fps@60Hz.

There is no difference in blur when comparing 60fps on 240Hz monitor, versus doing 60fps on 60Hz monitor (of the same panel tech, e.g. TN panels). Meaning you don't get any blur improvement for the same framerate on higher Hz. That doesn't happen. So you must keep your framerates permanently quadrupled if you want permanently 75% less motion blur.

We still need strobe/impulse modes even for 240Hz

You need to strobe (flicker like a CRT) in order to kill the motion blur.
Only impulse displays (flickerdisplays like CRT, plasma, Oculus' pulsed OLED VR screen, or strobe backlights like LightBoost/ULMB) can eliminate motion blur without needing to increase refresh rate.

If you hate flicker, then you need 1000Hz+ which is only in the laboratory at the moment.
I'm the world's first website to test 480Hz too, so we can confirm that "strobeless blur reduction" requires ultrahigh Hz.

The Blur Busters Law
1ms of frame visibility time equals 1ms of motion blur per 1000 pixels/sec

Which means:
- Motion blur on sample-and-hold displays is the refresh cycle length limit.
- Motion blur on impulsed displays is the length of the flash.
- Flash can be shorter than the length of a refresh cycle
Therefore:
- Strobed displays can beat the motion blur barrier of sample-and-hold displays.

A flickerless 240Hz display can't have less motion blur than 1/240sec = ~4ms. That means at 3000 pixels/second mouse flick turn can translates to 12 pxiels of motion blur at 240Hz (3 times 4 equals 12). That's still 1/4th the motion blur of 60Hz, though! But doubling the refresh rate only halves motion blur so you have to keep jumping up lots -- 60Hz -> 120Hz -> 240Hz -> 480Hz -> 960Hz - to keep eliminating more and more motion blur without using a strobe backlight.

Frame visibility time (Refresh cycle visibility time) is the sample-and-hold effect, also known as persistence, or "MPRT" (Moving Picture Response Time) in scientific papers.

Scientists & Researchers Agree

Several scientists have said that we may need 1000Hz-10,000Hz to successfully do "blurless sample-and-hold" or "strobeless ULMB" that's perfectly as sharp as real life (passing a Holodeck test).

See this article, which includes animations:
Blur Busters Law And The Amazing Journey To Future 1000 Hz Displays

...So until then, we need to do tricks such as LightBoost, ULMB, Blur Reduction, strobe backlights. They shorten frame visibility time without needing to shorten refresh cycles via higher refresh rates. However, strobeless ULMB is the ultimate because real life does not flicker, and few people (like myself) have seen strobeless ULMB, and we can confirm that it looks more like real life than a strobe backlight, because real life does not flicker. Unfortunately, if you hate motion blur at today's refresh rates, you must enable the strobe backlight for now (or get a CRT instead), until refresh rates are high enough to not need a strobe backlight.

Even NVIDIA agrees too (link to NVIDIA scientist), and I've also included several other links of NVIDIA tests including their experimental 1700 Hz zero-latency demo. And

What you can do is eliminate as many weak links as possible for now
- Smooth your microstutters
- Keep framerates high
- Keep pixel response good and fast (adjust overdrive/ghosting, get fastest panel, etc)
- Try testing framerates exactly matching refresh rate
(though sometimes this perfect synchronization requires a slight input lag, ugh)

Then whatever blur is left is essentially the speed of light and Blur Busters Law. ;) An unscaleable wall, but still better than having more display motion blur than the minimum display blur that law-of-physics can give you. We've gotten relatively close with modern LCDs -- close enough to really clearly see Blur Busters Law in action simply by watching www.testufo.com motion tests (all 30+ selectable ones of them at the upper-right corner) -- but there are unscaleable walls, unfortunately. Pick your poison (1) use a strobe backlight or CRT/impulsed display; or (2) wait for unobtainium refresh rates to arrive.

TL;DR: We need strobe backlights for now if you hate display motion blur
(until 1000Hz+ becomes a reality)
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ayeTop
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Re: Monitor motion blur (XL2540)

Post by ayeTop » 23 Sep 2018, 19:47

So i'm guessing that motion blur is normal from my monitor?

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Re: Monitor motion blur (XL2540)

Post by SQHQ » 24 Sep 2018, 00:28

Had this great monitor for almost 2 years now and have to say when dropping to 100-150 fps range on more demanding games it feels choppy i don't think i could go down to 144hz even thou i want an ultrawide display. BTW won't hdmi 2.1 support 1000hz at 1080p now ?

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Re: Monitor motion blur (XL2540)

Post by RealNC » 24 Sep 2018, 02:38

ayeTop wrote:So i'm guessing that motion blur is normal from my monitor?
It is normal to have 4 times less motion blur at 240FPS compared to a 60Hz monitor. At 120FPS, you have 2 times less motion blur compared to 60Hz.
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Re: Monitor motion blur (XL2540)

Post by ayeTop » 24 Sep 2018, 17:17

RealNC wrote:
ayeTop wrote:So i'm guessing that motion blur is normal from my monitor?
It is normal to have 4 times less motion blur at 240FPS compared to a 60Hz monitor. At 120FPS, you have 2 times less motion blur compared to 60Hz.
I know there will always be some motion blur. When playing games its like having the motion blur option on. I literally can't see anything if I swipe my mouse 1 or 2 inches slow or fast.

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Re: Monitor motion blur (XL2540)

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 25 Sep 2018, 13:12

Remember what I am saying is "theoretical least motion blur". There are many other weak links that worsen motion blur -- like cold temps, bad overdrive, GPU motion blur effect, monitor defects, etc.

The problem is that I have completely no idea if you're already fully optimized or not.

One way for me to help is a photographed motion test (instead of game photos). But you need to have precision control of the exact length of your camera exposure (e.g. some photographer skills) in order for me to have scientifically useful photographs for motion blur analysis -- especially with pursuit photography.

Do you see any odd left-edge or right-edge artifacts at http://www.testufo.com/ghosting .... that look like "ghosting" or "coronas" at LCD Motion Artifacts 101?
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