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[Blur Reduction sub-$200] Choosing between old monitors :V

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.

[Blur Reduction sub-$200] Choosing between old monitors :V

Postby ajotica » 29 Nov 2018, 14:24

Hi guys im new here and i will strongly appreciate your help in this decision,

I can only afford to buy one of these monitors (also used):
BenQ XL2420T (120HZ) 150usd
LG 24GM77 (144HZ) 200usd

*Asus VG248QE is unreachable for me, it costs 360usd here so I'm between the first two monitors*

I really want to buy a newer monitor but right now I am tight on budget. I hate the blurriness of my TV (Samsung nu7100) and I want to play games like Quake Champions and some fps games on ps4 (black ops 4, gta v, red dead 2, etc). What is my best option? I read that I can use the lightboost on the benQ one to improve the motion blur issue. Which one is going to have less input lag? BenQ is 2ms gtg and the LG is 1ms gtg. I just want to have a great experience playing on my pc without input lag and (if possible) the lowest motion blur. Will that benQ monitor allow to get overclocked to 144hz without getting damaged? Are any of those three monitors flicker-free? I really appreciate all the information and advise that you guys can give me. Thanks a lot for your hard work and all the time that you guys put on this. My English is bad, I'm from south America.

:D

Update: I just found an ASUS VG248QE for about 200usd(used). Date manufactured: June 2014. Is this model a flicker free Asus or its just the model that has eyestrain issues? Thanks a lot!

Please guys tell me, is the BenQ xl2420t good enough to play (modestly) quake champions (my rig is quite old: i5 4570, gtx660ti, 8gb ram) i want to play quake champions at 100-120fps if i can and play black ops 4 on my ps4 (dual purpose monitor). Thanks in advance!
Should i wait for the lazy seller (hes undecided to sell it) of the Asus or just buy the BenQ? Are the colors of the BenQ Panel better than the Asus? Anyway, those are old monitors and my pc isnt powerful. I just wanna defeat some friends on quake champions XD
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[Blur Reduction sub-$200] Choosing between old monitors :V

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 29 Nov 2018, 14:44

Hello,

The XL2420T does have the old LightBoost function (compatible with ToastyX StrobeLight instead of BlurBusters Strobe Utility).

As does the Acer GN246HL monitor which can be purchased brand new for under $200 brand new with warranty. The GN246HL has LightBoost too, though the ToastyX setup fails, the main strobelight executable works after exiting setup. Strobelight works on both AMD and NVIDIA, giving you LightBoost. Be noted that the GN246HL has bad ghosting by default, but that disappears in LightBoost mode, so if you're going to use LightBoost, then the ghosting is not a problem. There is a slight purple tint in LightBoost on both monitors but that can be tweaked in the LightBoost HOWTO/FAQ.

If you get LG-based blur reduction, get LG24GM79 instead of LG24GM77. The 77 has crappy strobing (tons of crosstalk) while the 79 is much better. But given your price quotes, the monitor is possibly beyond yoru budget. All things equal I would instead recommend the LightBoost monitors. Remember LightBoost is an older blur reduction feature, and if you can afford it, you should consider newer motion blur reduction technologies.

Best Sub-$200 Blur Reduction
My recommendation for your tight budget, is the used BenQ XL2420T at $150 and a brand new Acer GN246HL new on Amazon for under $200. Those are great prices for a 144Hz monitor with a CRT-motion-clarity blur reduction feature. LightBoost doe not work with consoles, and even it did, it would have double-images at 60fps@120Hz because most blur-reduction monitors double-strobe at 60Hz.

Best Sub-$250 Blur Reduction
If you can bump your budget to $250, there is eSports-quality blur reduction in the BenQ XL2411P which has lower lag than LightBoost and can be tweaked via Blur Busters Strobe Utility. As a bonus, it also has single-strobe 60Hz if you like blur reduction for gaming consoles (if you are OK with 60hz flicker). This is the cheapest monitor with good CRT-clarity blur reduction for consoles.
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Re: [Blur Reduction sub-$200] Choosing between old monitors

Postby ajotica » 29 Nov 2018, 15:42

Chief Blur Buster wrote:Hello,

The XL2420T does have the old LightBoost function (compatible with ToastyX StrobeLight instead of BlurBusters Strobe Utility).

As does the Acer GN246HL monitor which can be purchased brand new for under $200 brand new with warranty. The GN246HL has LightBoost too, though the ToastyX setup fails, the main strobelight executable works after exiting setup. Strobelight works on both AMD and NVIDIA, giving you LightBoost. Be noted that the GN246HL has bad ghosting by default, but that disappears in LightBoost mode, so if you're going to use LightBoost, then the ghosting is not a problem. There is a slight purple tint in LightBoost on both monitors but that can be tweaked in the LightBoost HOWTO/FAQ.

If you get LG-based blur reduction, get LG24GM79 instead of LG24GM77. The 77 has crappy strobing (tons of crosstalk) while the 79 is much better. But given your price quotes, the monitor is possibly beyond yoru budget. All things equal I would instead recommend the LightBoost monitors. Remember LightBoost is an older blur reduction feature, and if you can afford it, you should consider newer motion blur reduction technologies.

Best Sub-$200 Blur Reduction
My recommendation for your tight budget, is the used BenQ XL2420T at $150 and a brand new Acer GN246HL new on Amazon for under $200. Those are great prices for a 144Hz monitor with a CRT-motion-clarity blur reduction feature. LightBoost doe not work with consoles, and even it did, it would have double-images at 60fps@120Hz because most blur-reduction monitors double-strobe at 60Hz.

Best Sub-$250 Blur Reduction
If you can bump your budget to $250, there is eSports-quality blur reduction in the BenQ XL2411P which has lower lag than LightBoost and can be tweaked via Blur Busters Strobe Utility. As a bonus, it also has single-strobe 60Hz if you like blur reduction for gaming consoles (if you are OK with 60hz flicker). This is the cheapest monitor with good CRT-clarity blur reduction for consoles.


Thanks a lot for your reply. So, should i left the ASUS vg248qe out of the equation? by the things that you are telling me, i should buy the BenQ XL2420T (120hz) and save to get in the near future (6-8 months) the much better and newer BenQ XL2411P. Is that right, Chief?
I can get the LG-24GM79G-B by around 240$ but i read that the 24GM29 TN panel was much worse than the older version (24GM77).

What should i do? Should i consider that 24GM79 LG Monitor?

Thanks my friend! :D
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Re: [Blur Reduction sub-$200] Choosing between old monitors

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 29 Nov 2018, 16:00

ajotica wrote:Thanks a lot for your reply. So, should i left the ASUS vg248qe out of the equation?

If you can get VG248QE for the same price as the GN246HL, then the ASUS is a good choice for LightBoost.

ajotica wrote:by the things that you are telling me, i should buy the BenQ XL2420T (120hz) and save to get in the near future (6-8 months) the much better and newer BenQ XL2411P. Is that right, Chief?

That's one route you can take. You'll have to forgo blur reduction for consoles.

You'll benefit from 100Hz and 120Hz blur reduction in the meantime, and you can likely resell your XL2420T for the full original $150 and upgrade to the XL2411P.

The blur reduction on the XL2411P is much more involved to tweak (to get close to LightBoost quality, you definitely need to use the VT1502 trick and others) but you will also be able to get 60Hz console blur reduction. The image quality of the XL2420T and XL2411P is roughly similar, though some say the XL2420T is slightly better colors (without blur reduction)

ajotica wrote:I can get the LG-24GM79G-B by around 240$ but i read that the 24GM29 TN panel was much worse than the older version (24GM77).

Coincidentially, another user posted their experience with the LG24GM79 that I have now followed up to.

Remember that Monitor A can be better than monitor B without blur reduction, but that it reverses (Monitor B
becomes better than Monitor A) when you turn on blur reduction.

Is non-blur-reduction quality more important to you?
Or is blur-reduction quality more important to you?
Likewise, is colors more important than blur reduction?
Or is blur reduction quality more important than colors?

Do you like brighter and better colors (But blurry?) Or do you like zero motion blur (even if poor colors)? Most blur reduction monitors have poorer colors than non-blur-reduction monitors, that is currently the penalty you pay for completely bypassing LCD motion blur and achieving full CRT motion clarity on an LCD panel.

Also, unlike VG248QE / GN246HL / XL-series -- I personally have not seen the 24GM77 or 24GM79 but I have received a lot of reports that the 24GM77 blur reduction is atrociously bad (tons of crosstalk) while 24GM79 is much better blur reduction.

Because of that, I would prefer to go with monitors I am familiar with -- one of the LightBoost-compatible monitors. However, the LG24GM79 blur reduction doesn't require hacks or mandatory software (e.g. ToastyX Strobelight) to enable, and it does work with consoles (albiet at double-strobe -- permanent double-images).
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       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
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Re: [Blur Reduction sub-$200] Choosing between old monitors

Postby ajotica » 29 Nov 2018, 17:35

Great, thanks for sharing your knowledge with me :D

The BenQ XL2420T (120hz) vs the ASUS VG248QE, will be a meaningful difference besides the 24hz that im losing ?

is 1ms gtg vs 2 ms gtg a big difference? im really thinking about getting that BenQ (cheaper by 50$ and the seller is a much more kind person to deal with)

¿What do you think? I liked to use my old CRT (Samsung SyncMaster 550v and 750S (i dont know if they were the best CRT out there, i just liked them a lot and enjoyed to play quake 3 and unreal tournament).

:D
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Re: [Blur Reduction sub-$200] Choosing between old monitors

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 29 Nov 2018, 17:42

ajotica wrote:is 1ms gtg vs 2 ms gtg a big difference? im really thinking about getting that BenQ (cheaper by 50$ and the seller is a much more kind person to deal with)

Technologically for blur reduction in general? Yes.
Realistically for NVIDIA's flavour of LightBoost? No.

NVIDIA has done a good job of optimizing LightBoost regardless of 1ms TN or 2ms TN. You'll be fine with either 1ms or 2ms NVIDIA-based blur reduction.

But generally, for blur reduction, 1ms vs 2ms vs 5ms makes a big difference, since the art of blur reduction requires trying to hide the GtG in the blanking interval between refresh cycles. Blanking intervals are extremely tiny at high-Hz, normally 0.5ms, which means many monitors do lots of tricks to try to push the figurative elephant (LCD GtG) through the drinking straw (blanking interval), when doing good quality motion blur reduction. The higher the Hz, the more important fast GtG becomes.

1ms is a tiny fraction of 1/60sec (less than 10% of a 60Hz refresh cycle) but is a major fraction of 1/240sec (25% of a 240Hz refresh cycle) and will be a giant fraction of future 480Hz (50% of a 480Hz). This is why we are demanding 0.5ms and faster panels to get ready for this future. However, this doesn't apply to 120Hz LightBoost as NVIDIA has done a good job of hiding LCD GtG with LightBoost and ULMB.

ajotica wrote:What do you think? I liked to use my old CRT (Samsung SyncMaster 550v and 750S (i dont know if they were the best CRT out there, i just liked them a lot and enjoyed to play quake 3 and unreal tournament).

LightBoost are like equivalent of 100Hz or 120Hz CRTs. You're stuck at those refresh rates, but you'll get CRT motion clarity when using LightBoost (even if not the color quality of CRT). Just make sure your framerate stays near or above Hz to get most of the benefits of blur reduction.
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       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
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Re: [Blur Reduction sub-$200] Choosing between old monitors

Postby ajotica » 29 Nov 2018, 17:49

Excellent! Im going to buy one of those monitors (this Saturday :D).

Is flickering a problem for the "eye strain" issue? i read that if i use the brightness at 100%, there is no flicker at the screen. How can i reduce the brightness without getting the flicker problem? (Maybe using some kind of "old school screen protector, i supose?).

Is it going to be a factor for eye strain the flickering that is used in LightBoost to eliminate the blur? Will i get eye strain using LightBoost at 100/120hz?

:D
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Re: [Blur Reduction sub-$200] Choosing between old monitors

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 29 Nov 2018, 17:51

Now, about PWM, if this is a concern to you:

ajotica wrote:Update: I just found an ASUS VG248QE for about 200usd(used). Date manufactured: June 2014. Is this model a flicker free Asus or its just the model that has eyestrain issues? Thanks a lot!

Model 2014 ASUS doesn't use PWM-free dimming. But if you are always going to use LightBoost, that may not matter.

If PWM-free during Windows desktop use is important, then you will want to try and find a newer monitor that has PWM-free dimming.

All strobe backlights flicker like a CRT of same frequency. So you can't avoid flicker with motion blur reduction. But it is more comfortable to look at during fast gaming than multi-pulse-per-refresh PWM for many people whose eyes are bothered by motion blur. Single strobe avoids the eye-searing serrated blur effects that PWM dimming (multi-pulse per refresh cycle) can provide and give eyestrain during heavy gaming:
Image

Image
Hz = backlight PWM Hz in this particular case.
The top image is equivalent to 4-pulse-per-refresh-cycle PWM dimming.
The bottom image is equivalent to 1-pulse-per-refresh-cycle motion blur reduction.

Strobing is essentialy 1-pulse-per-refresh PWM which is much more comfortable to look at during fast motion for many people. Which is more comfortable to most human eyes (during fast motion).

On a scale of comfort level, some people are bothered more by motion blur than by CRT-like flicker. So you can turn off LightBoost during Windows desktop (to get PWM-free for static Windows desktop use, maximize static image comfort) and turn on LightBoost for fast-action gaming (to get better motion blur comfort that outweighs strobe flicker, maximize moving-image comfort). Everyone has different comfort levels. If your eyes were happy with 60Hz and 75Hz CRT, you'll likely be happy with 120Hz LightBoost though it may take a moment to get used to the flicker look again -- but the improved motion clarity comfort can massively outweigh the flicker when you're immersed in fast motion content. Sometimes blur reduction becomes essential (especially for virtual reality) -- all consumer Oculus VR and HTC Vive VR headsets flicker at 90Hz to eliminate motion blur since everything is always in motion in VR. The right tool for the right job.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors
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Re: [Blur Reduction sub-$200] Choosing between old monitors

Postby ajotica » 29 Nov 2018, 18:09

Chief Blur Buster wrote:If PWM-free during Windows desktop use is important,

Im planning on using the monitor mainly for gaming and learning web development, can i use the monitor at 100% brightness so it wont bother me the flicker thing?

Chief Blur Buster wrote: So you can turn off LightBoost during Windows desktop (to get PWM-free for static Windows desktop use, maximize static image comfort) and turn on LightBoost for fast-action gaming (to get better motion blur comfort that outweighs strobe flicker, maximize moving-image comfort).

Can i use this for web development and playing games?

Chief Blur Buster wrote:If your eyes were happy with 60Hz and 75Hz CRT, you'll likely be happy with 120Hz LightBoost though it may take a moment to get used to the flicker look again -- but the improved motion clarity comfort can massively outweigh the flicker when you're immersed in fast motion content.


Basically, if i wasnt having issues with 60 and 75hz, i wont have problems with 100-120hz using lightboost?

Chief Blur Buster wrote: Sometimes blur reduction becomes essential (especially for virtual reality) -- all consumer Oculus VR and HTC Vive VR headsets flicker at 90Hz to eliminate motion blur since everything is always in motion in VR. The right tool for the right job.


I have the Samsung Gear VR (2016 model with improved FOV) and i hate it :D but i think i hate it because it has a really bad resolution (the content looks awful even at 1080p).

God i want that new (used) monitor to start tweaking things with lightboost :D

A lot of knowledge you have, Sir! :D
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Re: [Blur Reduction sub-$200] Choosing between old monitors

Postby Q83Ia7ta » 29 Nov 2018, 18:11

Acer GN246HL is so bad in terms of overdrive. It's just extreme at default and can't be disabled or changed.
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