Does ULMB feel smoother than GSYNC or just me?!

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
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GFresha
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Does ULMB feel smoother than GSYNC or just me?!

Post by GFresha » 01 Apr 2019, 00:46

Lately beeng messing around with ULMB + 240 FPS cap for competetive games and gsync on + vsync on + 141 fps cap for graphics games. I don't know man I'm liking dis so far, ULMB feels very smooth, actually both are smooth but ULMB is insane in FPS. Might be subjective but are you guys experiencing the same thing?

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jorimt
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Re: Does ULMB feel smoother than GSYNC or just me?!

Post by jorimt » 01 Apr 2019, 08:10

Perhaps you are mistaking "smoothness" in this case with "clarity"; G-SYNC and ULMB should be roughly equal in "smoothness" (frame delivery) so long as your ULMB setup is configured correctly and framerates are rock solid (no drops), but yes, ULMB will certainly have more "clarity" (less blur) than G-SYNC at 144Hz due to lower image persistence.

I'll note though that ULMB is a strobing method, which can add up to a couple ms of input lag over other methods, including G-SYNC.
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GFresha
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Re: Does ULMB feel smoother than GSYNC or just me?!

Post by GFresha » 01 Apr 2019, 12:01

jorimt wrote:Perhaps you are mistaking "smoothness" in this case with "clarity"; G-SYNC and ULMB should be roughly equal in "smoothness" (frame delivery) so long as your ULMB setup is configured correctly and framerates are rock solid (no drops), but yes, ULMB will certainly have more "clarity" (less blur) than G-SYNC at 144Hz due to lower image persistence.

I'll note though that ULMB is a strobing method, which can add up to a couple ms of input lag over other methods, including G-SYNC.
Actually I take the smoothness back LOL!

Played some more Apex and was getting shit done of FPS fluctation averaged around 122 fps, max was 141 and minimum all the way in 90s and so I turned off ULMB and turned on gsync on, vsync off, in game cap to 141 and its actually way more smooth.

But Fortnite is different case, I get 156 FPS minimum, average 236 and max 240 (in game cap to 240) so I actually turn off all sync methods to take advantage of the high FPS in the game and turning on ULMB on that game is absolutely sick!

I guess every game requires a different sync, no sync should be used for all games.

Two questions for you

1) You say ULMB adds input lag, but how much does it add for my situation where I cap fps to 240 (my hz is 144) and turn off all sync just ULMB how much input lag am I looking at if at all?

2) I know gsync around 1.6 MS at the worst of input lag correct? I am 100% okay with that for fluctuating competitive games but I was wondering how much more input lag would turning vsync on in NP be in terms of MS? Again this is at 141 FPS in game cap.

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jorimt
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Re: Does ULMB feel smoother than GSYNC or just me?!

Post by jorimt » 01 Apr 2019, 13:30

GFresha wrote:1) You say ULMB adds input lag, but how much does it add for my situation where I cap fps to 240 (my hz is 144) and turn off all sync just ULMB how much input lag am I looking at if at all?
Strobed methods add input lag because they continually inject black frames at certain intervals to reduce image persistence (blur). The interval length determines the input lag added, and that depends on the method in use. I'm betting the Chief can chime in and give you a better idea on that one.
GFresha wrote:2) I know gsync around 1.6 MS at the worst of input lag correct? I am 100% okay with that for fluctuating competitive games but I was wondering how much more input lag would turning vsync on in NP be in terms of MS? Again this is at 141 FPS in game cap.
G-SYNC "input lag" (if you can even call it that) is caused directly by the prevention of tearing, so it varies; there's no set number. G-SYNC has to adhere to the speed of the scanout cycle to prevent tearing (one complete frame delivered in sync with one complete scanout cycle per), and that's dictated by the max refresh rate of the display.

The only real appreciable input lag difference between G-SYNC (+ V-SYNC on/off) at 141 FPS @144Hz and V-SYNC OFF at 141 FPS @144Hz is the first one doesn't tear/fully tear and the second one does. As I've stated before, you'll only really see a beneficial decrease in input lag with V-SYNC OFF over G-SYNC if your framerate can exceed your refresh rate by at least 3 times.

As for "turning vsync on in NP," do you mean G-SYNC + V-SYNC or standalone V-SYNC?
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RealNC
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Re: Does ULMB feel smoother than GSYNC or just me?!

Post by RealNC » 01 Apr 2019, 15:12

GFresha wrote:Lately beeng messing around with ULMB + 240 FPS cap for competetive games and gsync on + vsync on + 141 fps cap for graphics games. I don't know man I'm liking dis so far, ULMB feels very smooth, actually both are smooth but ULMB is insane in FPS. Might be subjective but are you guys experiencing the same thing?
Well, if you can maintain 240FPS at 240Hz, and use ULMB on top, then this will obviously beat 141FPS without ULMB by a long margin when it comes to image clarity. Also, higher Hz (with the FPS matching it) is of course smoother. 240FPS@240Hz is smoother than 144FPS@144Hz in the same way 144FPS@144Hz is smoother than 100FPS@100Hz, which in turn is smoother than 60FPS@60Hz.

As you discovered yourself though, smoothness and consistency is an entirely different matter when you can't maintain 240FPS (or FPS = Hz in general.) G-Sync was invented to solve the smoothness problem when you can't maintain FPS = Hz at all times. If you can maintain it though, and especially at 240Hz where vsync lag when using a frame limiter is extremely low, then you obviously don't need g-sync.
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Re: Does ULMB feel smoother than GSYNC or just me?!

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 01 Apr 2019, 17:22

GFresha wrote:Lately beeng messing around with ULMB + 240 FPS cap for competetive games and gsync on + vsync on + 141 fps cap for graphics games. I don't know man I'm liking dis so far, ULMB feels very smooth, actually both are smooth but ULMB is insane in FPS. Might be subjective but are you guys experiencing the same thing?
This is normal;
ULMB with framerate-refreshrate locked motion can indeed look better than GSYNC under these conditions:

(1) Bright enough strobing (e.g. 300 nits, as found on 240Hz monitors)
(2) Framerates are exactly matching refresh rate & strobe rate (Aka VSYNC ON).

That said, overkill framerates beyond Hz (if sticking to VSYNC OFF), do look acceptable with ULMB, although it does amplify visibility of microstuttering significantly.

If your frame rates fluctuate a lot, GSYNC looks better. But if you can always run fully flat-out (and ULMB isn't dark on your model of monitor), then visually, ULMB can look better. You do need to keep your microstuttering under extremely good control including a really good mouse (e.g. high mouse DPI, low in-game sensitivity, great mousepad), since the lack of motion blur amplifies the visibility of minor microstutters.

It's a matter of personal preference, though.
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