Manufacturers Decisions: 60Hz LightBoost/ULMB/Blur Reduction

[Vega]

add me to user wish list expecting this, 60fps@60Hz strobing feature on even non native resolutions to achieve the same crt motion and picture clarity and sharpnesss. (i know its been discused and at the moment does not seem to be posible, but i dont want to lose my faith it will be posible some day).

Not sure how useful something like that would be. Your eyes could definitely discern only 60 strobes per second, causing great eyestrain just like CRT's at that low of Hz. Most users "threshold" down through the years I have seen to be in the 80-90 Hz range minimum for comfortable strobe viewing.

[Chief Blur Buster]

Your eyes could definitely discern only 60 strobes per second, causing great eyestrain just like CRT's at that low of Hz. Most users "threshold" down through the years I have seen to be in the 80-90 Hz range minimum for comfortable strobe viewing.

This is true...

...That said, the existence of the 60Hz option is a great boon for those users who want good blur reduction for 60fps material, as well as for gaming consoles. It is very easy to add 60Hz strobing when the monitor already does 85Hz+ strobing. So that the feature is "there" for the 5% of users who want/need it.

This could also be provided as an unlockable advanced-user option, much like for Blur Busters Strobe Utility "Override" checkbox. Where 60Hz strobing needs a 3rd party utility to unlock, for those people who want it, and can tolerate it.

[SS4]

So in essence if nvidia wanted, they could release a version 2 of their DIY kit for the vg248qe that allows 60hz strobe? That would be nice.

I would really like to know if they plan on releasing new and improved (with any improved functionality or one that doesnt remove things like the onscreen aiming reticle for exemple) DIY kit for the vg248qe and/or maybe give it a price drop by the end of this year . . .

[3dfan]

im very used to the 60hz, believe me, never been a problem for my eyes, that could be because since when i started to play 60fps 60hz games (such half life1, daytona usa, some fighting games, nes , super nes etc about 20 years ago) 60hz was the default refresh rate those monitor and TV worked at (correct me if i am wrong) and also for that years pc monitor average resolution, at least in my current country colombia, worked at 60hz maximum at their maximum resolutions. i have never seen a 120hz monitor in my country, the average monitors here are usually sell at maximum refreshes of 60hz at their maximu resolution., and because of this site i know those 120hz or beyond exist, also my current monitor, a normal, nothing special CRT LG flatron ez t71osh only supports max 60hz at its highest resolutions 1280 x 1024 and beyond (currenly is set to 1440 x 1152 60hz and been using this setting for years with no eye strain for me). i may notice some slight flickering if i come too close to the screen on a white static image, but nothing bad for my eyes, and when playing 60fps 60hz games, i absolutely don't see any flicker, so i think i just grew up with that "60hz culture".

Straight to the point:, this is why i post here, to let actual current monitor manufactures to know, there are people like me who would like to enjoy the crt clarity and scalability at 60hz, a refresh rate / frame rate combination that is more than enough for me and my pocket., and ideal for me and those who want to use their monitor for 60hz fps games or consoles, non native resolutions supported games, or games that run much better at more consistent 60fps on lower than monitor native resolutions without the need to sacrifice their in game graphics quality and conserve a nice image resolution with good crt quality non native resolution scalability, for the 720p content, and enjoy all those benefits on a widescreen blur free monitor. i undestand this site is about "better than 60hz" and blur elimination, but this is the only site i found really caring about elimination of that annoying blurfest. i just would like to pay a rasonable amount of money for a current widescreen monitor that would be able to behave like my very old and outdated crt monitor can do.

even if users like me are rare, i feel we are being listened on this site: just the blurbusters strobe utility at 60hz was created, from what i read it behaves same as a crt 60hz, which would be fine to me, sad only works on one monitor brand and on its native resolution only (hope i will be wrong on this).

[Vega]

One reason monitor manufactures may not allow a 60 Hz strobe is looking at history. Huge amounts of people complained about headaches/eyestrain (and rightfully so) with CRT monitors. You wouldn't believe how many peoples machines I would find running 60 Hz when their monitors could do higher refresh rates. The users just didn't know any better. I would go into libraries/classrooms and dozens of CRT's that could do 85+ Hz were all set at 60 Hz.

Most people are not tech savvy. They expect to plug the thing in and it "work". If they plug it in and see that their eyes hurt with it set at a flickering 60 Hz, large numbers of returns are sure to follow. This could be alleviated by some sort of "check" on the monitor OSD that pops up for a few seconds saying something like "Caution: low refresh rate mode. Set higher to alleviate eye strain" or similar.

[Chief Blur Buster]

So in essence if nvidia wanted, they could release a version 2 of their DIY kit for the vg248qe that allows 60hz strobe? That would be nice.

This is correct.
60Hz strobing is easier to engineer than 120Hz strobing.
But manufacturers don't want to do "60Hz LightBoost" because of flicker, bad user experiences, and eyestrain.
This is a valid argument.

However, BENQ Blur Reduction Version 2 now can do 60Hz single-strobe per refresh!
(On BENQ XL2411Z, XL2420Z, and XL2720Z when combined with Blur Busters Strobe Utility)

Available Blur Reduction Strobe Rates
NVIDIA LightBoost: 100Hz, 120Hz (fixed rates only)
NVIDIA ULMB: 85Hz, 100Hz, 120Hz (fixed rates only)
EIZO Turbo240: 105Hz through 122Hz (in 1Hz increments via Custom Resolution)
BENQ Blur Reduction V1 75Hz through 144Hz (in 1Hz increments via Custom Resolution)
BENQ Blur Reduction V2 60Hz through 144Hz (in 1Hz increments via Custom Resolution)

One way all manufacturers can do this safely without disrupting mainstream users, is to make it disabled by default, by requiring an advanced-user 3rd party utility to enable the 60Hz strobe mode. I highly encourage all manufacturers to hide easter eggs (e.g. hidden DDC/CI commands) in their computer monitors for adjusting strobe settings, persistence, valid strobe rates, single-strobe 60Hz, etc. This makes possible power-user 3rd party utilities, such as Blur Busters Strobe Utility which is what is used to enable 60Hz single-strobe with BENQ Blur Reduction V2.

There are several people who are very happy with 60Hz strobing, while others hate the nasty flicker it produces. But the fact that people exist, who are happy with 60Hz strobing, means it should at least be made possible, since it is such a simple engineering change (60Hz strobing is dirt-easy to do if 120Hz strobing is successful -- it is just a few extra lines of firmware programming, with less than 1 day of software development time).

For any manufacturer (NVIDIA, EIZO, ASUS, BENQ) that releases a computer monitor with hidden/undocumented DDC/CI commands for adjusting strobe settings, I would be very happy to quickly release Strobe Utilities.

[SS4]

You say they need to hide these options, but i don't see why. All the settings should be available or under an advanced tab maybe.
Even if the 60hz option is there it won't be the one enabled by default and people who don't want it just wont use it.
I don't see the harm . . .

I truly hope there will be a newer DIY kit, but there probably wont be since the support for the VG248QE will most likely go down in favor of the new ROG soon . . .

Oh well, by that time i might be able to find a much cheaper DIY kit (fingers crossed )

[masterotaku]

The main reason I bought a BenQ Z monitor is thanks to its strobe flexibility. Do I want clearer motion? Easy. Perfect clarity/brightness balance for me is a bit under 1ms, I think. Do I want higher or lower frequency to increase/decrease game requirements? Done.
The 60Hz mode is very useful for games that are limited at 60Hz/60fps and emulators. The 60Hz strobing doesn't annoy me while I'm playing. I't only very noticeable at desktop.

If the new ASUS PG278Q had this flexibility, I'd buy it for sure. But a 2ms strobe length and only at 85/100/120 Hz isn't enough for me.

[Sparky]

Does increasing persistence make flicker less perceptible at lower refresh rates? For example, 90hz with 1ms persistence vs 60hz with 6ms persistence? Obviously you lose some of the motion clarity, but the amount of backlight off time per frame would be about the same.

[Chief Blur Buster]

Does increasing persistence make flicker less perceptible at lower refresh rates? For example, 90hz with 1ms persistence vs 60hz with 6ms persistence?

Yes, adjusting persistence helps to an extent.
The flicker duty cycle (amount of visible:black time) has an effect on flicker visibility (and amount of motion blur):
http://www.testufo.com/blackframes/#count=3

but the amount of backlight off time per frame would be about the same.

However, unfortunately, flicker detection doesn't work that way. Detection of flicker is more related to frequency.

When testing an Arudino-powered flickering LED, the flicker is more easily detected at 60Hz even if you have 90Hz at 1ms versus 60Hz at 8ms persistence (~8ms off time). Still much easier to see than 90Hz at 1ms, because of the lower flicker frequency.