ELMB-SYNC on TUF Gaming VG27BQ

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
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AddictFPS
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Re: ELMB-SYNC on TUF Gaming VG27BQ

Post by AddictFPS » 18 Jan 2020, 15:06

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
19 Sep 2019, 14:48
sharknice wrote:People are reporting TN version also has a lot of crosstalk. :(
It is much better if you cap your framerate -- consistent framerates tend to have much less crosstalk / multiimage effects.

Useful low-crosstalk strobe range appears to be roughly ~80Hz thru ~120Hz.

ELMB SYNC automatically starts double strobing at below roughly 80fps.
https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/as ... #elmb-sync
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/asus/tuf-vg32vq

Two reviews show that Asus TUF Series 2019 with ELMB-Sync 144FPS/Hz, backlight is double-strobing, so is not crosstalk alone, is pure double image + crosstalk.

One Amazon.com comment about VG27BQ, he has tested both 27BQ and 27AQ, with the same double image issue.

https://www.amazon.com/Gaming-VG27BQ-Mo ... tBy=recent
https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-revi ... B07WPFP6S4

Based on your comment: with ELMB-Sync On, if you set a frame rate cap betwhen 80-120, for example 80, and FPS are steady 80 rock solid, you are 100% sure this double strobe behavior dissappears with 80Hz, and apply pure single strobe ? This is a very usefull data.

Another doubt apart: With VRR Off and ELMB On, what are the frequency's range allowed at single strobe ? the same as with ELMB-Sync 80-144 without OC ?

The crosstalk at the lowest allowed single strobe frequency 80Hz, is the same that with ELMB-Sync frame rate cap 80FPS ?

If with only ELMB On user can change OD settings, this can help tweak a bit the crosstalk.

This VRR Off ELMB On is usefull data also, because ELMB-Sync requires DisplayPort v1.2a or higher, and people with good GPU but just DP v1.2 like GTX 980Ti OC, like me, can't use VRR, and has approximately the same brute force that GTX 1070, and there are interested on use this monitor at fixed strobed frecuency. And people with modern RTX can also end using this, if they are not comfortable with the ELMB-Sync algoritm behavior.

Anyone can confirm if these 3 TUF models use bad scaler ? Chief warning about this on this topic, so better that this information can be know before buy it, or crosstalk disaster is assured.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5728&start=10#p44271

Thanks !

jax343
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Re: ELMB-SYNC on TUF Gaming VG27BQ

Post by jax343 » 10 Mar 2020, 10:38

I just bought the VG27BQ. I turned on ELMB, G sync and overclocked it. With ELMB on I see faint ghosting trails on running characters in csgo. Is this normal, and why is this occurring? Also a little blacklightbleeding bottom of screen.

Rooslin
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Re: ELMB-SYNC on TUF Gaming VG27BQ

Post by Rooslin » 28 Sep 2020, 14:10

Anyone test the crosstalk on this monitor with just the ELMB? looking for a 27" 1440p monitor with a good strobing implementation, don't really care about the freesync or gsync.

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AddictFPS
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Re: ELMB-SYNC on TUF Gaming VG27BQ

Post by AddictFPS » 29 Sep 2020, 07:07

I read at hardforum thread BQ/AQ months ago, that both have also bad strobing with fixed frequency, pursuit photo included. 165Hz is not enought for do clear single strobing nor 100Hz. At least, not with current brightness levels, than not allow extreme shot MPRT without excesive dim.

Even the best strobing tuned monitor, Viewsonic XG270 BlurBusters Approved, with 240Hz scanout and 400nits can't hide completely crosstalk at 100Hz. With the shortest MPRT is very dim. Is needed trade crosstalk with brightness.

High probalility you get much better result with AOC AG273QZ TN 1440p 240Hz Vs VG27BQ. Review at TFTCentral. Some Youtube videos.

Rooslin
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Re: ELMB-SYNC on TUF Gaming VG27BQ

Post by Rooslin » 29 Sep 2020, 11:35

AddictFPS wrote:
29 Sep 2020, 07:07
Even the best strobing tuned monitor, Viewsonic XG270 BlurBusters Approved, with 240Hz scanout and 400nits can't hide completely crosstalk at 100Hz. With the shortest MPRT is very dim. Is needed trade crosstalk with brightness.
I always thought the Benq/Zowie XL 2546s had the best MBR (DyAc+) also how does Benq do DyAc+ @ 240hz with no reduction in brightness?

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Re: ELMB-SYNC on TUF Gaming VG27BQ

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 29 Sep 2020, 13:13

Rooslin wrote:
29 Sep 2020, 11:35
AddictFPS wrote:
29 Sep 2020, 07:07
Even the best strobing tuned monitor, Viewsonic XG270 BlurBusters Approved, with 240Hz scanout and 400nits can't hide completely crosstalk at 100Hz. With the shortest MPRT is very dim. Is needed trade crosstalk with brightness.
I always thought the Benq/Zowie XL 2546s had the best MBR (DyAc+) also how does Benq do DyAc+ @ 240hz with no reduction in brightness?
No motion blur reduction technology (strobing) is a jack-of-all-trades:

DyAc is really good, and can do strobing higher-Hz a little better and brighter at lower lag, if you are lag-priority strobing rather than best quality strobing (overall -- TN colors vs IPS colors, crosstalk, etc)

However, if you are crosstalk-priority while getting the IPS goodness, it's hard to beat a ViewSonic XG270 at low refresh rates (75Hz through 120Hz), for a CRT-emulation use case.

ELMB-SYNC can provide a very interesting experience if you want stutter-free strobing with no tearing at relatively low lag. Blur reduction technologies look their best (quality-wise, not lag-wise) during VSYNC ON. But we all know capped VRR is lower lag than VSYNC ON, and this is where ELMB-SYNC magic comes in. Capping ELMB-SYNC and you get low-lag VSYNC-ON lookalike experience, as long as your framerates stay high (away from the ELMB-SYNC multi-strobing framerate ranges). Now, that said, it is admittedly extremely hard to have framerates match the ELMB SYNC rates. And there is still a smidge more crosstalk than DyAc+ at the max Hz. But it's easier to get a "low-lag VSYNC ON" experience with ELMB SYNC than DyAc+.

If you're a professional money-earning CS:GO player that needs blur reduction, then VSYNC OFF + DyAc is probably your bet. (224fps PureXP+ can get quite close though, although if you're competitive wanting IPS, you've already decided to go with one of the upcoming 360Hz monitors, since the extra Hz more than makes up for the IPS cons over TN)

If you're wanting the framerate=Hz ultrasmooth CRT clarity look, 120fps games on XG270 Blur Busters Approved is quite FW900-like.

If you're a emulator user, then XG270 Blur Busters Approved is excellent (when combining with software BFI)

If you need lowest lag without using VSYNC OFF and can play high frame rates, the ELMB SYNC can be attractive if you can run the small framerate range that doesn't multi-strobe. You can, of course, use RTSS Scanline Sync with PureXP+, though that is much harder to do than simple capped VRR.

Alas, different strobing technologies have had their shining attributes in different use cases, and are unable to be a perfect jack-of-all-trades.
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AddictFPS
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Re: ELMB-SYNC on TUF Gaming VG27BQ

Post by AddictFPS » 30 Sep 2020, 06:55

Rooslin wrote:
29 Sep 2020, 11:35
how does Benq do DyAc+ @ 240hz with no reduction in brightness?
Good question. It is not know, its a propietary technology.

By logic, seems to me like a high-end backlight than can do very short "extreme spike nits", much higher than average, much more than ~350nits in the specs for non strobed operation.

If this is the case, and the spike nits are betwhen the safe range of backlight specs, no problem. But if is one overvolted backlight, using DyAc+ continuously maybe cause brightness degradation upper average. Seems than brighness is directly related to life time.

Anyway, even if degrades more fast, its a amazing tech, strobe 100Hz very clear, low crosstalk with a brighness level excellent.

phpBB [video]


Sadly, can't single strobe under 100Hz, so can't run 60FPS games, emulators and video streams with near CRT quality. With DyAc+ show double image (double strobe), with DyAc+ Off 16.6ms motion blur. Seeing than old XL2411p can single strobe 60Hz, and it sales are very good by this reason, is a bad decision of BenQ/Zowie than sure cap DyAc+ sales out of pure eSports gamers, they never use 60Hz, but some mainstream gamers also buy Zowie monitors, not only for fast paced games, here 60Hz matters to much !
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
29 Sep 2020, 13:13
Capping ELMB-SYNC and you get low-lag VSYNC-ON lookalike experience, as long as your framerates stay high (away from the ELMB-SYNC multi-strobing framerate ranges). Now, that said, it is admittedly extremely hard to have framerates match the ELMB SYNC rates.

If you need lowest lag without using VSYNC OFF and can play high frame rates, the ELMB SYNC can be attractive if you can run the small framerate range that doesn't multi-strobe.
I have doubts about this, realy there are range single strobed with ELMB-Sync ?

ApertureGrille VG27AQ review show than there are no range free of multistrobing:

https://www.aperturegrille.com/reviews/ASUSVG27AQ/#ELMB

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