Less motion blur - CRT or LCD at 60Hz?

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
nuninho1980
Posts: 65
Joined: 26 Dec 2013, 09:49

Less motion blur - CRT or LCD at 60Hz?

Post by nuninho1980 » 12 Oct 2019, 17:26

Hello.

After the death of my CRT 21" 1100MB, at 60Hz less motion blur is any CRT or best LCD?
PC specs:
CPU: i7-4790K
RAM: 2x8GB DDR3@2400MHz
MB: ASUS Z97-Pro Gamer
GPU: EVGA GTX 980 Ti SC+ :D
Opt. disc: LG BD-RE writer BH16NS40
HDDs: SATA both 1TB+3TB
SSD: OCZ RD400 512GB
PSU: AEROCOOL 1kW 80+ Gold
Disly: new LCD soon...

Q83Ia7ta
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Re: Less motion blur - CRT or LCD at 60Hz?

Post by Q83Ia7ta » 13 Oct 2019, 20:46

Any CRT if I got your question correctly. Can you rephrase it?

nuninho1980
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Joined: 26 Dec 2013, 09:49

Re: Less motion blur - CRT or LCD at 60Hz?

Post by nuninho1980 » 14 Oct 2019, 16:54

CRT!?! :( But does BenQ w/ DyAc have lower persistence time? Or current/future LCD-LED monitor 25" with 0.3ms MPRT?
PC specs:
CPU: i7-4790K
RAM: 2x8GB DDR3@2400MHz
MB: ASUS Z97-Pro Gamer
GPU: EVGA GTX 980 Ti SC+ :D
Opt. disc: LG BD-RE writer BH16NS40
HDDs: SATA both 1TB+3TB
SSD: OCZ RD400 512GB
PSU: AEROCOOL 1kW 80+ Gold
Disly: new LCD soon...

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RealNC
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Re: Less motion blur - CRT or LCD at 60Hz?

Post by RealNC » 15 Oct 2019, 08:52

Depends on the CRT's phosphor quality. A quality CRT monitor that's not been used much will usually have persistence that is lower than a strobed LCD. But finding an almost unused CRT is rather difficult. AFAIK, the phosphor of a CRT will degrade with use and become more persistent. This is why heavily used CRTs exhibit heavy trailing of bright pixels. Some CRTs might also use a higher persistence phosphor on purpose in order to reduce flickering. My 50Hz PAL CRT TV for example seemed to be one of those. However, CRT monitors usually don't have a reason to do this, as opposed to CRT TVs.

Back in 2004 I was still using a CRT monitor and also had a CRT TV. I sometimes connected my PC to the TV to play games on NES and SNES emulators. Motion blur was clearly higher on the TV compared to my monitor. It seems that your average CRT TV out there has a persistence of around 4 or 5ms and that looks like this:

https://youtu.be/3BJU2drrtCM?t=141

A good and not much used CRT monitor will have faster phosphor decay than that though. Also note that phosphor decay has a smooth fade-out. It's not like the almost instant on-off strobe of an LCD backlight. This gives a CRT a more pleasant feel to your eyes than the harsher strobed LCD flickering. In my experience, the flicker of 120Hz LCD strobing looks about the same as 75Hz CRT flicker.
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nuninho1980
Posts: 65
Joined: 26 Dec 2013, 09:49

Re: Less motion blur - CRT or LCD at 60Hz?

Post by nuninho1980 » 15 Oct 2019, 09:05

@RealNC: Thank for CRT info but I've knew for one/two years.

I knew -/+2.8 ms persistence time at 60Hz but for 4 years as old news from Blur Busters. Therefore. you need to answer: "what's lower persistence time of LCD monitor?". BenQ DyAc or Acer Nitro XF2 or any other brand/model? I'll buy a new LCD w/ max 25".
PC specs:
CPU: i7-4790K
RAM: 2x8GB DDR3@2400MHz
MB: ASUS Z97-Pro Gamer
GPU: EVGA GTX 980 Ti SC+ :D
Opt. disc: LG BD-RE writer BH16NS40
HDDs: SATA both 1TB+3TB
SSD: OCZ RD400 512GB
PSU: AEROCOOL 1kW 80+ Gold
Disly: new LCD soon...

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RealNC
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Re: Less motion blur - CRT or LCD at 60Hz?

Post by RealNC » 15 Oct 2019, 09:11

Unfortunately, I don't know the numbers. On some monitors (mine included) I can set the strobe persistence from 1% to 100%, but it doesn't tell me the number in milliseconds :-/ I'm not sure the number is even given in the spec sheets of monitors.

And even if I knew the numbers, I can't tell you how that translates to motion blur. A CRT with a 0% persistence of 5ms (the time it takes the phosphor to go to 0% brightness) might still have a 20% persistence (time it takes to go to 20% brightness) of less than 1ms. That might produce less motion blur than a 1ms LCD strobe. I don't know. I think Chief knows way more about this than I do.
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The views and opinions expressed in my posts are my own and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Blur Busters.

nuninho1980
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Joined: 26 Dec 2013, 09:49

Re: Less motion blur - CRT or LCD at 60Hz?

Post by nuninho1980 » 15 Oct 2019, 09:34

RealNC wrote:Unfortunately, I don't know the numbers. On some monitors (mine included) I can set the strobe persistence from 1% to 100%, but it doesn't tell me the number in milliseconds :-/ I'm not sure the number is even given in the spec sheets of monitors.

And even if I knew the numbers, I can't tell you how that translates to motion blur. A CRT with a 0% persistence of 5ms (the time it takes the phosphor to go to 0% brightness) might still have a 20% persistence (time it takes to go to 20% brightness) of less than 1ms. That might produce less motion blur than a 1ms LCD strobe. I don't know. I think Chief knows way more about this than I do.
Ok. Does Acer Nitro XF2 25" get 0.3 ms persistence time (= MPRT)@240Hz and 1.2 ms@60Hz at +/-50% brightness, ok?
PC specs:
CPU: i7-4790K
RAM: 2x8GB DDR3@2400MHz
MB: ASUS Z97-Pro Gamer
GPU: EVGA GTX 980 Ti SC+ :D
Opt. disc: LG BD-RE writer BH16NS40
HDDs: SATA both 1TB+3TB
SSD: OCZ RD400 512GB
PSU: AEROCOOL 1kW 80+ Gold
Disly: new LCD soon...

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: Less motion blur - CRT or LCD at 60Hz?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 15 Oct 2019, 11:57

About LCD motion blur reduction:

1. You may want to consider also lower refresh rate with strobing. There is too much strobe crosstalk when strobing at too high a Hz.
(A) For strobe crosstalk, 120Hz strobing on a 240Hz monitor is better than 240Hz strobing on a 240Hz monitor
(B) For strobe crosstalk, 120Hz strobing on a 240Hz monitor is better than 120Hz strobing on a 144Hz monitor
TL;DR: You want big refresh rate headroom to minimize strobe crosstalk. Otherwise, strobe crosstalk can be bad.
It is a trade-off choice between higher Hz versus better strobe crosstalk

2. Persistence (MPRT) is adjustable on many monitors. 0.3ms persistence is often extremely dark (less than 50 nits) so you will probably want to brighten it a bit to roughly 0.5ms to 1.0ms persistence (strobe length / strobe pulse width).
It is a trade-off choice between brightness versus persistence

If you are looking for something closer to CRT colors with strobing, it might be prudent to wait for the 240Hz 1ms IPS panels. I have seen enough to know that the color quality is maintained much better (little to no degradation of color quality when turning on strobing), and strobe crosstalk is reasonably low (and I've seen it better than an average TN). Motion blur reduction connoisseurs who are picky about color quality, definitely will be interested in the 240Hz 1ms IPS panels.
Consider waiting for 240Hz 1ms IPS if you want 120Hz strobe that is closer to CRT quality
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nuninho1980
Posts: 65
Joined: 26 Dec 2013, 09:49

Re: Less motion blur - CRT or LCD at 60Hz?

Post by nuninho1980 » 15 Oct 2019, 13:27

Ok. Do I choose BenQ ZOWIE XL2546 for less motion blur at low Hz?
PC specs:
CPU: i7-4790K
RAM: 2x8GB DDR3@2400MHz
MB: ASUS Z97-Pro Gamer
GPU: EVGA GTX 980 Ti SC+ :D
Opt. disc: LG BD-RE writer BH16NS40
HDDs: SATA both 1TB+3TB
SSD: OCZ RD400 512GB
PSU: AEROCOOL 1kW 80+ Gold
Disly: new LCD soon...

nuninho1980
Posts: 65
Joined: 26 Dec 2013, 09:49

Re: Less motion blur - CRT or LCD at 60Hz?

Post by nuninho1980 » 17 Oct 2019, 05:35

nuninho1980 wrote:Ok. Do I choose BenQ ZOWIE XL2546 for less motion blur at low Hz?
@admin or @moderator:
Please you should decide less motion LCD monitor but attention max 25".

PS: Does OLED 22" 4k w/ 0.04ms or 0.1ms have strobe? (no urgent needed for your answer ;)) But after that LCD, I'll upgrade OLED(?) monitor in next +/-2 years.
PC specs:
CPU: i7-4790K
RAM: 2x8GB DDR3@2400MHz
MB: ASUS Z97-Pro Gamer
GPU: EVGA GTX 980 Ti SC+ :D
Opt. disc: LG BD-RE writer BH16NS40
HDDs: SATA both 1TB+3TB
SSD: OCZ RD400 512GB
PSU: AEROCOOL 1kW 80+ Gold
Disly: new LCD soon...

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