Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 27 Feb 2020, 18:57

AddictFPS wrote:
27 Feb 2020, 17:23
ELK wrote:
27 Feb 2020, 06:34
Type C crosshair which is a dot actually can never be centered because it's 2 pixels wide meaning it will offset either left or right 1 pixel. It is also 2 pixels tall meaning it will either offset up or down 1 pixel. I use it in games where sometimes there is a crosshair and sometimes not and they never line up.
Dot type crosshairs, need to be allways pair number side lenght, is the only way to center it. With only one pixel is not possible to center it, due to all common resolutions has pair numbers in both width and height.

1920x1080 with dot 2x2 pixels

959+2+959=1920
539+2+539=1080

If the 2x2 dot crosshair in XG270 can be moved in the screen to any position you want with 1 pixel precision, all perfect. You can't move it with pixel precision ?
It's game dependant.

It's the game versus OSD crosshairs.

Different games have different pixel-width crosshairs -- center dot 1 pixel vs center dot 2 pixels

The even-numberness and the odd-numberness of the width of the game's crosshairs center "pixel" -- versus the monitor's builtin-crosshairs -- must be the same width even-numbered-ness or the same odd-numbered-ness, in order to center in each other.
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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by Ansive » 27 Feb 2020, 22:57

I got the monitor today.
Is this the expected amount of crosstalk I should expect at 100hz and 120hz using purexp?
Image
Image
(I used 1/125 exposure to get the pictures, they look very similar to what I'm seeing)

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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by AddictFPS » 28 Feb 2020, 17:47

Ansive wrote:
27 Feb 2020, 22:57
Is this the expected amount of crosstalk I should expect at 100hz and 120hz using purexp?
Thanks for share :D For optimal crosstalk test is needed fullscreen screenshot, some questions:

1) What level of PureXP+ is active with 100Hz screenshot ?

Because more strobe lenght, more brightness and less flicker, but increased crosstalk.

2) You use the default FHD 100Hz resolution that come with the monitor EDID, or a 100Hz custom resolution with Vertical Total tweak to use the native PixelClock scanout speed of 240Hz ?

To get the lowest crosstalk, is necessary use the fastest scanout the monitor can do, and i not know if the 100Hz EDID resolution is maded with VT tweak, i hope yes.

If i remenber correctly, Chief say that tweak PureXP+ for see barely visible crosstalk in center of screen with 120Hz, displacced to upper and botton. And with 100Hz there are less crosstalk.

Crosstalk in your 100Hz screenshot is low at upper line, and progressively increase in below lines. The upper ufo line is the center of your monitor, and the bottom ufo line is the bottom zone of your monitor ? If yes, is the normal behavior, now try other PureXP+ levels to see differences. And check the pixelclock of your 100Hz resolution, sould be around 600MHz, if is lower than 300 means that is not using the native fastest scanout, and result in much more crosstalk.

To see the current pixelclock of EDID FHD 100Hz, you need a EDID tool, maybe Custom Resolution Utility can do this. This tool save original EDID values in OS registry keys, and also user custom made tweaks, so you can check it all. I read this info in CRU forum.

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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 28 Feb 2020, 21:17

AddictFPS wrote:
28 Feb 2020, 17:47
1) What level of PureXP+ is active with 100Hz screenshot ?
Currently, PureXP levels are currently only available in the upcoming new firmware. PureXP levels haven't factory shipped yet, as far as I know. (If any users have received units with PureXP levels, please let me know. Thanks!
Ansive wrote:
27 Feb 2020, 22:57
I got the monitor today.
Is this the expected amount of crosstalk I should expect at 100hz and 120hz using purexp?
Image
Image
(I used 1/125 exposure to get the pictures, they look very similar to what I'm seeing)
Yes, looks correct.

It looks like you photographed only bottom 2/3rds of your screen -- including center and near bottom edge of the screen -- so I'm focussing closer to the top edge of your photographs because that represents your screen centre.

Yes, this is within the expected crosstalk-visibility range for most 1ms panels (IPS and TN) for the amplified-visibility TestUFO Crosstalk Test. It is normal for bottom edge to look worse than screen centre.

Overall, this is much better than any other IPS strobing and VA strobing as you can see in RTINGS / TFTCentral images, and there are some TN panels with worse crosstalk than this. When you switch to www.testufo.com/photo it becomes much less visible.

Also make sure your monitor is not cold (warm up for at least 30-60 minutes first if in a freezing room in the winter) to avoid temperature-related increases to crosstalk -- cold rooms can increase strobe crosstalk by a tiny bit on many LCDs. That said, what I am seeing is already within the range of what I see.

Zoom the TestUFO test via the [Full Screen] button in the TestUFO test, and you'll see crosstalk is lower in the screen centre, than for screen top/bottom. This is normal as the near-crosstalk-free priority is screen centre. It is normal to have slightly more crosstalk at the top/bottom screen edges with global-strobe backlight displays of all technologies. Now if you switch motion tests to www.testufo.com/photo or game imagery such as www.testufo.com/framerates-versus -- it becomes harder to see the crosstalk.

I've cropped a reference of the lower-crosstalk portion of your photographs (portion of screen corresponding to regions closer to the vertical center of screen).

XG270 IPS strobe, 100 Hz, close to screen centre
100hz-capture.png
100hz-capture.png (130.32 KiB) Viewed 4464 times
XG270 IPS strobe, 120 Hz, close to screen centre
120hz-capture.png
120hz-capture.png (111.52 KiB) Viewed 4464 times
This is what it looks like on my unit, too.

Comparing to my reference XG270, these are quite similar -- I've seen much worse than this on most IPS and VA panels and quite in the middle of TN territory (much better than the worst TN). If you compare these to RTINGS and TFTCentral strobed pursuit images, you'll see your screen-centre PureXP+ crosstalk is lower than most of them at the same refresh rates (And probably darn nearly all of IPS and VA prior to 2020!!).

Obviously, the TestUFO Crosstalk is specifically designed to amplify strobe crosstalk visibility. So crosstalk in this specific test looks more noticeable than video games and even browser scrolling (smoothscroll by keyboard or mousewheel). So crosstalk in majority of real-world usage should be less noticeable than in this specific test.

Note: Stationary photographs (non-pursuit) are acceptable for crosstalk analysis purposes as only one stationary strobe flash needs to be recorded, to determine if the LCD has sufficiently refreshed for that particular single strobe backlight flash.
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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by AddictFPS » 29 Feb 2020, 10:38

100Hz EDID resolution has the VT increased to equal native fastest scanout speed (and the consequent low input lag) of 240Hz ?

Clearily 100Hz has lower crosstalk,

At left red ufo part, 100Hz is very clear, but 120Hz show a black trail

Overall ghost image is better at 100Hz, it disappears progressively, not forced, 120Hz show tipical overshot artifact, example yellow to ground, 100Hz decay smooth, 120Hz show more darker color that background.

Good work Chief, maybe some TN can get less crosstalk if use very short strobe lenght, but people need to know that a good MBR gaming experience is a mix of low crosstalk and maintain decent levels of brightness, color and contrast. 100% Crosstalk-Free screen with very low brightness or whasedout colors is useless.

A serious MBR review, sould allways take in account all values of image quality with MBR On, for example Rtings do not test color, contrast and brightness when test MBR (BFI). Is fustrant, people that buy MBR monitor to use MBR, want to know it. Hope XG270 Rtings review has a very deep BFI review.

Off-Topic: A small imprecision in http://www.testufo.com/photo

Default settings with 100Hz show: 100FPS, 10px/frame, 960 px/s

But 100 frames/s x 10 pixels/frame = 1000px/s panning speed

Pixels/frame should show 9.6 ?

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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by GammaLyrae » 29 Feb 2020, 14:13

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
28 Feb 2020, 21:17
XG270 IPS strobe, 100 Hz, close to screen centre
100hz-capture.png

XG270 IPS strobe, 120 Hz, close to screen centre
120hz-capture.png
These are pretty good results, IMO. On my pg279q, the same UFO test shows two trailing images - one is about half brightness and semi-transparent with the background, and the next trailing image is a half-transparent inversion. The desktop experience (browsing, scrolling, using the OS, etc) is pretty miserable like that, but the artifact is less noticeable in games or movies. I would expect having such a small level of cross talk like this one - maybe a 5% brightness, single trailing image, would completely disappear when watching or playing anything, and might not even be noticeable in quite a few desktop scenarios.

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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by Ansive » 29 Feb 2020, 14:22

@AddictFPS
I have a normal unit, I cannot control the PureXp level.
I use the native resolutions. I don't know how to create a custom resolution with Vertical Total tweak 240Hz scanout.
With CRU.exe if I set the pixel clock to 600Mhz the Hz is also modified to 250Hz.
I added full screen pictures and the pixelclock reported by the monitor OSD.


@Chief
Good to know my unit isn't faulty or misconfigured.
I guess the technology is still quite limited. I was hoping for no crosstalk at all across the screen.

Do CRT monitors also have crosstalk?

Compared to my 8 year old lightboost TN VG278h monitor I would say the XG270 has
- less crosstalk in 100hz and 119hz (but still similar)
- less blur (spaceship white dots better defined)
- less brightness (waiting for the firmware)
- no buzzing
- easy on/off toggle using configured quick access button
- IPS colors, angles


Made a lot of pictures using full screen Alien Invasion test:
https://www.testufo.com/photo#photo=ali ... 0&height=0
Speed = 1920

Photos using Samsung s10
ISO 500
100, 119, 120 hz - aperture 1/125 F1.5
144 hz - aperture 1/180 F1.5
240 hz - aperture 1/250 F1.5

Ignore the black bands in landscape photos and vertical black bands in portrait ones, that's a mismatch between my phone camera aperture and the monitor refresh rate.

Photos look very similar to actual perception.

Included pictures of full screen, left, middle and right screen:
- 100, 119, 120, 144, 241 hz (overclocking activated)
- 100, 119, 120, 144, 240 hz (overclocking deactivated)

Summary of the photos:

100hz - 114.6Khz/99.9hz 302.6 Mhz
> upper to middle 50% = very low crosstalk
> very top = colored pre ghost
> lower part = colored after ghost
https://imgur.com/a/d1yIufe

119hz - 134.9Khz/119.9hz 296.7 Mhz
> upper to middle 40% = very low crosstalk
> very top = overdrive after ghost + colored pre ghost
> lower part = colored after ghost
https://imgur.com/a/0h88JxS

120hz - 135.1Khz/120.1hz 297.0 Mhz
> middle to lower 20% = very low crosstalk
> very top = overdrive after ghost + colored pre ghost
> top = overdrive after ghost
> lower part = colored after ghost
https://imgur.com/a/Yh4eGUB

144hz - 158.3Khz/144.2hz 325.0 Mhz
> middle 15% = low crosstalk
> very top = overdrive after ghost + colored pre ghost
> lower part = colored after ghost + 2nd overdrive after ghost
https://imgur.com/a/W8kRVpa

240hz - 278.4Khz/240.0hz 564.8 Mhz (no OC)
> very top and bottom 10% = low crosstalk
> upper middle = colored after ghost
> lower middle = double image
241hz - 279.3Khz/240.8hz 567.2 Mhz
> same as above
https://imgur.com/a/1iSWlr4

100hz and 119hz are the best modes.
I would not use the other ones.

Can't tell if the Overclocking option in the monitor OSD affects crosstalk.

Extra pictures from VG278H
100hz
https://imgur.com/a/U2yn0a2
110hz
https://imgur.com/a/KmiXKpd
120hz
https://imgur.com/a/hPBmXOu

And a brightness comparison
10%
Image
100%
Image

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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by jorimt » 29 Feb 2020, 14:56

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
28 Feb 2020, 21:17
Overall, this is much better than any other IPS strobing and VA strobing as you can see in RTINGS / TFTCentral images, and there are some TN panels with worse crosstalk than this. When you switch to www.testufo.com/photo it becomes much less visible.
Ansive wrote:
29 Feb 2020, 14:22
Good to know my unit isn't faulty or misconfigured.
I guess the technology is still quite limited. I was hoping for no crosstalk at all across the screen.
Compared to typical IPS crosstalk, what PureXP achieves (within center screen area) is darn near immaculate for the panel type. Goes to show it's all relative...

My XB271HU IPS, 120Hz ULMB, center screen, for instance (original post link below):
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3399&p=26330&hilit=ulmb#p26330

Image
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: Acer Predator XB271HU / LG 48CX OS: Windows 10 MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3 UG RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by AddictFPS » 29 Feb 2020, 21:39

Ansive wrote: I added full screen pictures
Image Good work Image
Ansive wrote: I use the native resolutions. I don't know how to create a custom resolution with Vertical Total tweak 240Hz scanout.
With CRU.exe if I set the pixel clock to 600Mhz the Hz is also modified to 250Hz.
100hz - 114.6Khz/99.9hz 302.6 Mhz :(

Ok, i try guide you, but wait until Chief confirm if this method is correct and secure, im not a monitor tweak expert, i don't want your monitor to suffer any damage because of me.

240hz - 278.4Khz/240.0hz 564.8 Mhz (no OC) This is the target PixelClock.

Add Detailed LCD Native, type 1920 1080 100, the rest of values auto complete, take a screeshot, Cancel.

Add a Detailed Manual, fill all above values, click in the Total checkbox, edit Total Vertical Lines with higher value, you can see that PixelClock increase but frequency is maintained at 100Hz, search the VT value to fit or very close to PixelClock target, click Ok, move [email protected] at the upper position in the Detailed Resolution List to make it the "native" and can override the [email protected] default EDID resolution, Click Ok, restart PC to apply changes.

Apply it, confirm if OSD show increased PixelClock, test crosstalk, hope good news ! Image

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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 01 Mar 2020, 13:13

GammaLyrae wrote:
29 Feb 2020, 14:13
These are pretty good results, IMO.
jorimt wrote:
29 Feb 2020, 14:56
Compared to typical IPS crosstalk, what PureXP achieves (within center screen area) is darn near immaculate for the panel type.
Indeed. It's among the best IPS strobing you can get today.

Even TN can do worse than what this IPS can do at the common 120Hz strobed refresh rate -- about half of my TN monitors get noticeably more strobe crosstalk at 120Hz than this too. It even has less strobe crosstalk than many of my old TN LightBoost monitors, too.
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