Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
Ansive
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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by Ansive » 09 Mar 2021, 19:36

Wow, I didn't expect that.

I unplugged my blinds and moved the power plug to a different wall outlet (that isn't shared by my PC). The problem went away.
Then I moved the plug to the original outlet and the problem still hasn't come back.

If it reappears I'll have to make some permanent changes.

I guess the most important thing to know is this won't harm the monitor even when it happens.

Markachy
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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by Markachy » 11 Mar 2021, 05:17

Given my original post was probably a bit long and needed a TLDR, plus I did a lot more reading (and mouse buying! G903 here now) to somewhat answer my own questions, I have a few outstanding questions I haven't found solutions to:

1. For best PureXP clarity, is the below correct?

Settings: Monitor on 119.88Hz setting in Windows, VRR off, RTSS set to 119.87 (measured 119.883 using UFOTest, so minus 0.1 on that), PureXP on, Vsync in-game on.
Should I have Vsync enabled ingame, as well as the RTSS frame limiter, or one of the two only? And should I always have Enhanced Sync in Radeon software enabled, as well as Vsync ingame? Or should I use EITHER RTSS frame limiter, or Vsync? And is the "right" answer actually game-dependent?

2. I know 119.88Hz setting gives best PureXP experience (better than 120GHz?). Are the other "tuned" settings 224Hz and 100Hz? Is 75Hz not recommended?

Thanks!

EDIT I just tried out multiple TestUFO screens, and on my specific monitor, 100Hz is the clear winner - 119.88 and 120Hz both have a "ghost" located about 25% behind the main UFO figure. Is that normal?! I thought 119.88/120Hz was meant to be best?

Markachy
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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by Markachy » 11 Mar 2021, 09:01

Additional update: using the TestUFO Crosstalk test, combined with using the AMD Radeon driver to make custom resolutions, I have found that MY particular XG270 model has a sweet spot between 102 and 103 Hz. It is VERY clear, and significantly better than 120Hz, or even 100Hz.

Is this caused by panel variation, or something odd with my own setup? I would also imagine that doubling this, to 204-206Hz, would result in the best higher-Hz option? 240Hz looks pretty terrible. Does that logic hold true?

PS AMD Radeon doesn't allow any custom resolution with a refresh rate higher than 200...I tried CRU to make one but it seemed to do funny things, so I had to reset it. In CRU, is it sufficient to just make a new resolution with 204Hz refresh, and use the default for all other options?

Ansive
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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by Ansive » 11 Mar 2021, 11:39

Hello

100Hz has more time to hide the pixel transition artifacts.
On my screen 100hz is also better than 119hz, but not by much.
120hz and up don't looks good enough to me to be used.

Here are my screenshots from a year ago:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5998&p=47454#p47492

I don't have any info on VRR, RTSS since lately I've mainly been playing bulky games with gsync.

Markachy
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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by Markachy » 11 Mar 2021, 12:43

Thanks for that link, it was interesting reading and viewing. The differences compared to my own specific monitor are fascinating - possible panel lottery effects?

I've done more testing using the TestUFO Strobe CrossTalk animation. My 119 Hz (I'm assuming you mean 119.88Hz, which was a default option available to me in Windows from the moment I connected the monitor, not a custom one I entered) is poor in comparison to your own 119Hz pictures, and not really any better to 120 Hz in my case (whereas in your pictures, the 119Hz is obviously superior to 120Hz).

However, my 100Hz is very good, and my 102Hz (custom option, made using ToastyX CRU as when I used the AMD Radeon custom resolution option it always defaulted to 6-bit colour?!) is really exceptional, closest to your 100Hz option.

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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 11 Mar 2021, 14:35

119.0 Hz CRU is what others use. 119.88 uses the 120Hz tuning preset.

The PureXP XG270 is turned at 75, 100, 120, 144, 180, 224, and 240 Hz internal presets, and any in-between refresh rates 0.5 Hz below these will round down to the nearest tuning memory.

There is a slight panel lottery effect / room temperature effect (hotter / 7 day breakin = sometimes raises the sweet spot, since all panels ever made GtG can vary a bit with these variables, even 100 microsecond GtG difference can increase/decrease crosstalk human noticeably). That means some panels have different “perfect sweet spots” by a few percent.

Tip: Before strobe tweaking, break in your new monitor 24/7 for about 72 hours to break in a new panel. The liquid crystal layer needs to redistribute after the pressure spots of being packed in foam (also helps make IPS glow a bit more uniform). Like how you press a finger on the LCD and picture distorts - but pressures by the box during shipment. It takes time for all LCDs to recover fully from that.

Then try testing 118.0 or 119.0 Hz after running break-in period.

ULMB and DyAc also improves slightly after the break in / warm up (GtG getting a bit faster after all pressure spots fully disappears + also GtG is slow in cold temps like a forgotten smartphone in a car in winter)
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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by Markachy » 11 Mar 2021, 15:37

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
11 Mar 2021, 14:35
119.0 Hz CRU is what others use. 119.88 uses the 120Hz tuning preset.

The PureXP XG270 is turned at 75, 100, 120, 144, 180, 224, and 240 Hz internal presets, and any in-between refresh rates 0.5 Hz below these will round down to the nearest tuning memory.

There is a slight panel lottery effect / room temperature effect (hotter / 7 day breakin = sometimes raises the sweet spot, since all panels ever made GtG can vary a bit with these variables, even 100 microsecond GtG difference can increase/decrease crosstalk human noticeably). That means some panels have different “perfect sweet spots” by a few percent.

Tip: Before strobe tweaking, break in your new monitor 24/7 for about 72 hours to break in a new panel. The liquid crystal layer needs to redistribute after the pressure spots of being packed in foam (also helps make IPS glow a bit more uniform). Like how you press a finger on the LCD and picture distorts - but pressures by the box during shipment. It takes time for all LCDs to recover fully from that.

Then try testing 118.0 or 119.0 Hz after running break-in period.

ULMB and DyAc also improves slightly after the break in / warm up (GtG getting a bit faster after all pressure spots fully disappears + also GtG is slow in cold temps like a forgotten smartphone in a car in winter)
Thanks for the tips. When you say burn in for 72 hours, is it necessary for it to be consecutive? I've had the monitor for 10 days now, which includes at least eight 8-hour work days, plus additional time at weekends so easily in excess of 72 hours in total, just not consecutively.

In terms of temperature, I'm in mild Ireland in a modern insulated house with zoned, thermometer controlled heating, so Indoor temperatures are between 18 and 22 degrees Celsius at all times, so the monitor should be consistent now.

I'll definitely check out 119hz via cru to see if it's any different. But I can say for sure that 102Hz is king for me so far, significantly better than 120hz.

I can try to take pics - is a Pixel 5 able to take a good pic of it?

Finally, in CRU the timing confuse me. Rather than manual, I've used Automatic (PC), and just set the Hz - is that sufficient?

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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 11 Mar 2021, 19:19

Markachy wrote:
11 Mar 2021, 15:37
Thanks for the tips. When you say burn in for 72 hours, is it necessary for it to be consecutive? I've had the monitor for 10 days now, which includes at least eight 8-hour work days, plus additional time at weekends so easily in excess of 72 hours in total, just not consecutively.
Doesn't have to be consecutive, just might take a lot longer for GtG's to stabilize. Also, a powered monitor is warmer than a cold monitor, so GtG stabilizes the most for a broken-in panel that's also been on for at least ~30 minutes since its last power up.
Markachy wrote:
11 Mar 2021, 15:37
Finally, in CRU the timing confuse me. Rather than manual, I've used Automatic (PC), and just set the Hz - is that sufficient?
Yes. Further tweaks are 100% optional.

There is an unofficial tweak:

Optional ~4ms reduction in PureXP latency

If you're not interested in reducing lag via Quick Frame Transport effect, then yes -- it is sufficient. There's up to a 4ms strobe latency savings if you decide to hit two birds with one stone.

<Optional Advanced User Tweak: Quick Frame Transport>

Geometrically, the pixels are delivered left-to-right, top-to-bottom over a cable from GPU to monitor -- in this order in this pixel layout for all screens, per refresh cycle.

Image

Like reading a book or a calendar, pixels are delivered one at a time over a video cable (VGA, HDMI, DVI, DisplayPort) at the pixel clock speed. The porches/sync intervals are spacers between pixel rows and between refresh cycles.

So this diagram is repeated 120 times on the cable for 120 Hz refresh cycles -- in the art of delivering 2D pictures over a 1D wire.

But How Do We Deliver a 100Hz or 120Hz Refresh Cycle In 1/240 second?

There are ways to speed up delivery of individual refresh cycles over a video cable requires a large blanking interval (vertical sync/porches), which can compress the transmission of the active visible refresh cycles to a shorter time period (e.g. 100Hz refresh cycle transmitted over DisplayPort in 1/240sec).

This helps strobing lag a bit because pixels can be delivered faster, and refreshed onto the panel sooner, to allow the strobe backlight to flash a bit sooner -- up to about 4ms sooner (for 120Hz 8ms refresh cycles delivered in 1/240sec 4ms delivery)

The most applicable FAQs are Custom Resolution Utility glossary, as well as Quick Frame Transport.

The most common 120Hz QFT timings is as follows:

Image

From Advanced XG270 Tweaks.
This reduces PureXP latency by about 4ms at 120Hz.

Math Calculation For Other Refresh Rates
Most 1080p signals use a typical Vertical Total 1125 (1080 visible rows + 45 spacer between refresh cycles as blanking interval). After putting the radio button on the "Total" you can usually calculate your ideal QFT VT by multiplying 1125 by 240 then dividing by your preferred refresh rate. At 100 Hz, you can use (1125 * 240 / 100) = VT2700 at 100Hz. Just keep all 240 Hz ToastyX numbers unchanged when changing vertical total and refresh rate (the only two numbers that should change). Make sure horizontal refresh rate is exactly unchanged and make sure pixel clock (dot clock) is exactly unchanged, versus the original working 240 Hz mode.
1. Start with a working default max-Hz mode
2. Put radio button on "Vertical"
3. Put radio button on "Pixel Clock"
4. Don't edit any other number except "Vertical Total". Increase Vertical Total and you'll see Hz automatically decrease.
5. Now you have a large-VT low-Hz mode derived from your working max-Hz mode.

</Optional Advanced User Tweak: Quick Frame Transport>
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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by Markachy » 12 Mar 2021, 05:51

Thanks to all for the help and assistance thus far, its been great. I've done further testing using the Strobe Crosstalk test, and can confirm the following:

Best Refresh Rates for PureXP (without specific timing tunings, just using Automatic (PC) timings in CRU, for my panel):
  • 76Hz
  • 103Hz (absolute best one)
  • 119Hz
  • 224Hz
On another note, I've noticed that my "clearest" row in the strobe crosstalk test is NOT in the centre of the screen - it is consistently around the 5th "row" of 15 rows, when that test is run fullscreen at 1080P. Is that odd, or suggest a systematic correction that could be applied in timings?

Thanks again, the blur reduction really is something to behold, and really needs to be pushed to the general game-playing public. Not sure how, it really needs to be seen to be believed, as I believe the vast majority would go for the 103/119Hz PureXP on one of these tuned panels, over and above any generic high-refresh, but blurry, VRR, once they see the difference. I'm genuinely excited to go back and play some of the older isometric games once again to experience them without the hideous blur. Planescape Torment...

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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Post by Markachy » 12 Mar 2021, 06:15

Apologies for this. New issue!

Whenever I load the CRU custom resolutions (can't used AMD software to do it as it automatically sets it to 6-bit colour - googling suggests this is a known bug), I am unable to enable Freesync (when PureXp is off of course) in AMD Radeon software - it says it is "not supported". Note that it IS enabled in the monitor software itself.

Any ideas? An odd CRU setting perhaps? I use 240Hz Freesync for a few games so I need to be able to switch between them painlessly.

When I reset using CRU, I regain the option to enable Freesync, but of course lose my custom resolutions.

Thanks!

EDIT Managed a quick fix - tried a different CRU method - I set the custom resolutions below 200Hz using "standard" resolution slots, and only the 224Hz in the detailed resolution slot. And it has fixed itself! Not sure why, but all good once again.

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