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Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Posted: 05 Dec 2020, 15:49
by Ansive
G-sync is all about the monitor refreshing when it receives a new frame.
The monitor Hz setting is basically the upper limit.

So:
- either use software to limit the framerate (driver or ingame settings if available)
- or, like you said, create a custom resolution to cap the max refresh rate

G-sync should work in both cases.

Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Posted: 07 Dec 2020, 11:11
by datspike
I've just wanted to warn you all that EDC 1.3.0.0 which you can download at the separate EDC page on the ViewSonic site was not updating my XG270. The 1.2.0.0 version from XG270 page did it.

Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Posted: 08 Dec 2020, 16:38
by niros
Hi , So after spending hours in Apex Legends trying to find the best monitor settings I finally managed to find settings i really like!
but! now Cyberpunk is around the corner and I would love an advice from you guys on a good setting for RPG with Adaptive Sync and good visuals

Any advice would be great :)

Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Posted: 08 Dec 2020, 19:21
by Chief Blur Buster
Use ultra low strobe rates if you use PureXP with Cyberpunk 2077
Cyberpunk 2077 will be extremely difficult to run at strobe-worthy framerates. As I recommend strobing at framerate=Hz, sometimes the only way to fix that is to lower refresh rate to match frame rates, to get PureXP strobing to look good. If you want to use strobing with Cyberpunk 2077, try lower Hz such as 75Hz or 100Hz while enabling DLSS 2.0 on an RTX card. PureXP+ can support 75 Hz strobing with extremely low crosstalk. Use custom resolution to create an even lower strobed refresh rate than 100Hz.

Consider G-SYNC for low-framerate solo games
A better experience for such GPU hungry games like this one may be G-SYNC instead. (Be noted, don't confuse FreeSync/GSYNC/VESA AdaptiveSync, with the "Adaptive VSYNC" which is not variable refresh)

Visuals more important than sync-technology latency for low-framerate solo games
Being a primarily solo game, optimizing for visuals is also a natural -- a tiny smidge of extra sync-technology latency is OK given the dominant GPU latency -- so I personally will not be using VSYNC OFF technologies with Cyberpunk 2077.

If you are lucky to have an RTX 3090 and adjust lots of detail levels and throw in DLSS 2.0 too -- then you may be able to use 120Hz PureXP without reducing too much detail. The temptation with Cyberpunk 2077 is to nearly max-out detail, turning it into framerates potentially not worthy of strobing.

Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Posted: 08 Dec 2020, 22:57
by Chief Blur Buster
A5hun of ApertureGrille had some glowing things to say about the Blur Busters Approved PureXP mode:

ApertureGrille.com ViewSonic XG270 Review

"[PureXP] ...Normal looks much better. Dropping the pulse duration from 3.35 ms down to 2.52 ms doesn't seem like much, but it makes a big difference in clarity. Crosstalk is already better."

"[PureXP] Extreme, with a 1.68 ms pulse, looks fantastic! While not quite matching a CRT, this is my recommended mode for the XG270: good enough clarity while maintaining a high enough brightness."

"[PureXP] Ultra is shockingly good! This only applies at the center of the screen, but I think Ultra actually looks better than the CRT. Unfortunately, to achieve this, the XG270 is dimmer than an eighteen year old CRT."

At the time when I calibrated the XG270, the 120Hz calibration looked fantastic, but clearly some panel GtG shifts may have occured, since 119 Hz now produces better strobe quality than 120 Hz on some samples (real sweet spot Hz is actually 119.8 Hz or so). However, there you go. For strobe quality, to this date, few monitors have been able to match the Blur Busters Approved XG270 at 119-120Hz.

P.S. I have tried to Blur Busters Approve several monitors this year, but they all fell way short of the threshold. So as of 2020, only the XG270 has passed the stringent Blur Busters Approved criteria for strobe-backlight motion blur reduction quality.

Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Posted: 09 Dec 2020, 01:52
by diakou
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
08 Dec 2020, 22:57
P.S. I have tried to Blur Busters Approve several monitors this year, but they all fell way short of the threshold. So as of 2020, only the XG270 has passed the stringent Blur Busters Approved criteria for strobe-backlight motion blur reduction quality.
If a blurbusters approved 360hz comes out in start of 2021, I am sending you an invoice for my 360Hz I just got. Being complicit in such an atrocity to me/us and not letting us know before I went about and got myself a 360Hz already!

Jokes aside, thank you for continuing and adding onto your reputability and authority as Blurbusters

Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Posted: 09 Dec 2020, 05:40
by niros
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
08 Dec 2020, 19:21
Use ultra low strobe rates if you use PureXP with Cyberpunk 2077
Cyberpunk 2077 will be extremely difficult to run at strobe-worthy framerates. As I recommend strobing at framerate=Hz, sometimes the only way to fix that is to lower refresh rate to match frame rates, to get PureXP strobing to look good. If you want to use strobing with Cyberpunk 2077, try lower Hz such as 75Hz or 100Hz while enabling DLSS 2.0 on an RTX card. PureXP+ can support 75 Hz strobing with extremely low crosstalk. Use custom resolution to create an even lower strobed refresh rate than 100Hz.

Consider G-SYNC for low-framerate solo games
A better experience for such GPU hungry games like this one may be G-SYNC instead. (Be noted, don't confuse FreeSync/GSYNC/VESA AdaptiveSync, with the "Adaptive VSYNC" which is not variable refresh)

Visuals more important than sync-technology latency for low-framerate solo games
Being a primarily solo game, optimizing for visuals is also a natural -- a tiny smidge of extra sync-technology latency is OK given the dominant GPU latency -- so I personally will not be using VSYNC OFF technologies with Cyberpunk 2077.

If you are lucky to have an RTX 3090 and adjust lots of detail levels and throw in DLSS 2.0 too -- then you may be able to use 120Hz PureXP without reducing too much detail. The temptation with Cyberpunk 2077 is to nearly max-out detail, turning it into framerates potentially not worthy of strobing.
Hi chief thanks for the info.
My main concern right now is to find good monitor settings for things like color and image adjust+ I think i'd might activate Adaptive sync which then enable me the option to enable gsync on my gpu (3070)
not sure if i want purexp because the low dimm kinda annoys me.

so id be happy for any1 who can share good image/color adjust settings for rpg's + probably gonna activate gsync+vsync and maybe id lower the Hz to something like 144?

Thanks

Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Posted: 09 Dec 2020, 09:03
by AddictFPS
Amazing ApertureGrille review, like allways :)

Is a level upper over the rest, what gamers need know about motion handling, deep pixel speed measurement and to much strobe details ;)

The reality is than CRT handle motion better than current fastest gaming LCD, higher LCD frequencies can't solve its slow pixel speed, should evolve all two at the same ratio for the best results. This is why Testufo 100FPS/Hz VSync On in strobed LCD is not the same experience than with DELL CRT P1130. Slow pixel speed maximize crosstalk, but fortunately is low with PureXP+ and DyAc+ 240Hz monitors with agressive MPRT setting.

Strobe is amazing for smoothness, but added input lag should be removed, again caused by the same bottleneck, slow pixel speed. Needded to be hided (hide time = added lag), if not, strobe would be free of input lag Vs non strobed, for instance if can be used modern OLED or MicroLED panels with BFI. First show game frame, second the black frames. Massive improvement in pixel speed is a must be, if the goal is replace CRT. LCD Blue Phase is also a commercial option for next years ? All investment seems go straight to OLED and MicroLED, but BP LCD is very interesting also togheter FALD rolling scan. All three are under milisecond true response time. Good results for sure.

All supported frequencies in the CRT show fullscreen free of motion artifacts except phosphor decay "glow trails", free of motion blur, and not add input lag, the priority feature of competitive gaming monitors. The reason why almost all Pro players not use strobing, each milisecond counts. Only if lag dissappears, strobing will start fast real use growing in eSports.

High end CRT models are not currently manufactured, but there are people than demand. There are big groups of CRT fans in forums and social networks. DAC (digital analog conversion) removed from graphics cards output, is a joke ? I can't understand... this should not have happened, at least until other monitors technologies can equal they in all specs. In pixel speed it's too far ! Fortunately there are some "decent" DP to VGA DAC external adapters.

The old 21" 4:3 CRT DELL P1130 with FD Trinitron tube is the king in ApertureGrille, the rival to beat, it is evident that we have taken steps back. There should have been both CRT and LCD in shops, and people choose the one they prefer according to goal task. Imagine if CRT would have evolved all these years, how gaming and professional monitors specs would have ? what sizes ? resolutions ? color deeps ? pixel size ? frequencies ? comsuption ? size ? weight ? would they be worth it ? we will never know :(

Hope Viewsonic update firmware to unlock single strobe, and all others manufacturers the same. Is a feature than monitor manufacturers can include for repair a bit the damage made to gamers with the sudently fading of CRT, allow all single strobe tweaks from advanced section in the OSD, no limits.

Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Posted: 09 Dec 2020, 17:35
by Chief Blur Buster
AddictFPS wrote:
09 Dec 2020, 09:03
Ill supported frequencies in the CRT show fullscreen free of motion artifacts except phosphor decay "glow trails", free of motion blur, and not add input lag, the priority feature of competitive gaming monitors. The reason why almost all Pro players not use strobing, each milisecond counts. Only if lag dissappears, strobing will start fast real use growing in eSports.
We think "low-persistence sample-and-hold" (aka 1000fps+ at 1000Hz+) will grow faster in esports.

Flickerfree, blurfree, lagless, full brightness, strobeless, tearingless, stutterless, Holy Grail. Once framerates in esports reach 1000fps+ and displays reach 1000Hz+ (at good GtG pixel response performance), then we don't really need strobing.

Low-persistence sample-and-hold is superior in quality and looks. At some point, even engineering-wise 1000Hz will eventually becomes cheaper this century than complex scanning backlights. Complex backlight engineering and complex sync technology engineering become obsolete (even VRR can be skipped) at >1000fps @ >1000Hz (at near-0ms GtG100%) begins to retina-out everything temporally.

Fixed-Hz 1000Hz looks like per-pixel VRR, where all framerates look as smooth as VRR, even in simultaneous windows (24fps window, 25fps window, 300fps window, 157fps window), all windows looking simultaneously perfectly framepaced as if it was 24Hz, 25Hz, 300Hz, and 157Hz simultaneously on the same monitor! And motion blur decreases linearly with framerate, until it becomes CRT-clarity at 1000fps 1000Hz. Zero blur, no tearing, no sync-technology lag, no strobe lag, full brightness.

We're already 1/4th to 1/3rd of the way with 240Hz-to-360Hz monitors (although its GtG100% needs a lot more work). Strobing is destined to eventually be obsolete except for low-framerate material that can't be motionblur-reduced any other means. 60 years of legacy 60fps 60Hz material means we'll still need strobing to eliminate motion blur for low-framerate material. But, for full framerate esports, strobing will become obsolete eventually.

This will be approximately a decade because the "near-final" geometric increases in refresh rate is extremely hard, given lots of GtG improvement / color improvement / contrast improvement needed, GPU horsepower capabilities.

Re: Viewsonic XG270 with 'PureXP" MBR [pre-tuned by Blur Busters!]

Posted: 10 Dec 2020, 02:35
by AddictFPS
Of course, low persistence sample and hold is the way to go. Togheter with under ms total GtG is the perfect monitor. Until MicroLED arrives, OLED will serve as an aperitif, sadly with bunr-in and brightness limits, but in motion handling during its short lifetime with desktop usage, is also a beast capable of show 1000Hz without smearing only setting RGB 1-1-1 instead of 0-0-0 to avoid ramp up around 8-9ms. Both non strobed or strobed for backward compatibility. With under ms pixel times, and these insane Hz, can be done any custom setting, moreover native FALD at subpixel level and rolling scan :)
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
09 Dec 2020, 17:35
Fixed-Hz 1000Hz looks like per-pixel VRR, where all framerates look as smooth as VRR, even in simultaneous windows (24fps window, 25fps window, 300fps window, 157fps window), all windows looking simultaneously perfectly framepaced as if it was 24Hz, 25Hz, 300Hz, and 157Hz simultaneously on the same monitor!
I think to made this feature without any small sync issue, is needed a new hardware/software concept than involve not only monitors, also GPU and OS. If refresh cicle is each 1ms, and there are 100FPS (10ms) and 200FPS (5ms) windows, no problem. 10 cicles and 5 cicles exactly. But adding 60FPS window for instance, 16.6* ms (* = infinite float) can't be exactly sync with 1ms granularity. Is needed temp down to 960Hz, but now 100Hz is not in sync. To allow all three sync simultaneously, seems is needed pixel independent refresh rate, what a challenge ! ;)
We're already 1/4th to 1/3rd of the way with 240Hz-to-360Hz monitors (although its GtG100% needs a lot more work).
I think much people infravaluate how fast is realy 360Hz, but i understand they want more and more, due to the fustration of pixel speed bootleneck, they want improve motion of any way (shotguns to kill flies), but this frequency is extremely high if OLED or MicroLED panel can be manufactured with. People not even imagine how crazy fast would be.

When i play first person shooters with the 21" CRT 130KHz, with [email protected], steady 100FPS, low lag VSync, 1000Hz mouse polling, experience is amazing, much more than with current LCD, is not needed 200 or 300 FPS to enjoy a good smooth motion experience with the right monitor, i think from 100 to 1000 is eSports terrain, to reduce betwhen frames lag to reach almost a real time motion sync mouse-monitor.

Whit [email protected] i note smoothness improvement in very fast mouse turns, but the most i feel is the betwhen frames lag reduction from 10 to 8. If there are one future monitor faster than this, ok, but realy i do not need more, only more size, resolution, ...

Blur Busters LCD is almost doubling what i consider shoking :lol: is realy very fast frequency ! And 360Hz is 50% more, trust me when i say we are very good served in this spec :D

Image

When one panel with proper pixel speed be able to bring out the beast from the cave, all people never have play with CRT with high refresh rates (up to 200Hz with 800x600 with Iiyama Vision Master Pro 514 CRT 22" 142KHz HScan, 0 input lag, sub-milisecond GtG and MPRT), would understand better what i'm talking about.