Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
Falkentyne
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Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by Falkentyne » 14 Dec 2019, 23:31

To Viewsonic:

You are making an excellent monitor that is stealing the thunder from Asus and Benq's offerings, however one thing I feel you guys should implement is a 60hz blur reduction single strobe (one strobe per 16.7ms interval) at 60hz refresh rates. 60hz is an important setting because many PC console ports are locked to 60hz refresh rate, or 60 FPS otherwise. The Dark Souls and some other From Software games are also locked to 60hz/60 FPS, and Street Fighter 5, the most popular fighting game with crossplay capability, is also 60 FPS.

Also many arcade game emulators run at 60 FPS as well, so using 60hz/60 FPS with single strobing makes these games look arcade perfect in smoothness. The flicker eventually becomes an afterthought as backlight strobe flicker is only really noticeable on white backgrounds (e.g. browser windows).

Blur reduction at 60hz greatly improves image quality compared to blur reduction disabled. Images are a complete blurry mess with MBR off at 60hz.

Also, since these monitors can hook up to gaming consoles through HDMI that output 60hz only (or 50hz PAL), having the single strobe option will allow console users to buy this monitor and get smooth, blur free gaming by just enabling the service / OSD menu option to enable this.

The drawback to 60hz single strobe blur reduction is the backlight flicker that appears, and some people have health sensitive issues to flicker like this. This can be addressed by simply having "Double Strobe" as the default option at 60hz, which will strobe TWICE (meaning, two 8.3ms strobes, or otherwords, 120hz strobe timings) at 60hz, and then have the "Single Strobe" option available to be turned on for single frame strobing (with flicker). This way, anyone with problems with epileptic risks can simply disable this and double strobe.

Some monitors fall back to double strobing below 100hz, like the Benq original Z series (XL2411Z, XL2420Z, XL2720Z, XL2430T) below 96hz refresh rate, unless you enable the Single Strobe service menu option. This menu option has no effect at 100hz and higher, of course.

However, MANY People hate double strobing, because it creates a nasty double image effect to your eyes which looks very unnatural and can be more distracting than even MBR: Off. So it's important to have the option to enable "Single Strobing" at low refresh rates (depending on your regular single strobe cutoff happens, like 75hz, 60hz and in some cases, 50hz).

Thank you for your consideration in making firmware for this feature, and for working with Chief Blur Buster!

GammaLyrae
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Re: Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by GammaLyrae » 24 Dec 2019, 15:52

This would be a fantastic value add. You can fake it on PC using software (retroarch has a built in black frame insertion mode which works quite well) but this would still be great for connecting to consoles, or playing PC games that are locked to 60fps or play better at 60fps.

The best 60hz strobing display on the market currently is an OLED TV which is a bit large for your typical desktop experience.

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Re: Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 24 Dec 2019, 17:13

GammaLyrae wrote:
24 Dec 2019, 15:52
The best 60hz strobing display on the market currently is an OLED TV which is a bit large for your typical desktop experience.
I have forwarded this email thread to ViewSonic to see if they will address this in a future firmware upgrade.

The XG270 does a fantastic job with RetroArch black frame insertion, and even the software-BFI-assisted 60Hz on XG270 looks superior to the 100% hardware single-strobing support found in the BenQ XL2411P.

Blur Busters General Opinion:
We think that hardware-based 60 Hz single-strobe should be a feature of all future strobed monitors, giving users a choice of whether or not to tolerate the flicker. Some people cannot handle it, while others are okay with it. Many monitors are tested in bright office light environments using bright windows (e.g. browser windows), which is when 60 Hz single-strobe is more uncomfortable and flicker. But others have no problem with 60 Hz single-strobe support in many video games (and emulators) at normal viewing distances. Then flicker is not as bad.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors

Falkentyne
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Re: Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by Falkentyne » 25 Dec 2019, 18:21

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
24 Dec 2019, 17:13
GammaLyrae wrote:
24 Dec 2019, 15:52
The best 60hz strobing display on the market currently is an OLED TV which is a bit large for your typical desktop experience.
I have forwarded this email thread to ViewSonic to see if they will address this in a future firmware upgrade.

The XG270 does a fantastic job with RetroArch black frame insertion, and even the software-BFI-assisted 60Hz on XG270 looks superior to the 100% hardware single-strobing support found in the BenQ XL2411P.

Blur Busters General Opinion:
We think that hardware-based 60 Hz single-strobe should be a feature of all future strobed monitors, giving users a choice of whether or not to tolerate the flicker. Some people cannot handle it, while others are okay with it. Many monitors are tested in bright office light environments using bright windows (e.g. browser windows), which is when 60 Hz single-strobe is more uncomfortable and flicker. But others have no problem with 60 Hz single-strobe support in many video games (and emulators) at normal viewing distances. Then flicker is not as bad.
Chief, please let me know as soon as you can if they release a firmware to add this.
I'll buy the monitor (Freesync/adaptive sync version) as soon as they do. I'm still confused as to what model is what however.

I'm holding off until then because I want to make sure it can do 60hz SS or there's a firmware on blurbusters archive for us to upgrade to :)

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Re: Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 26 Dec 2019, 20:31

XG270 is the FreeSync one (G-SYNC Compatible)
XG270QC is the native G-SYNC one (not compatible with FreeSync).

ViewSonic uses the G-SYNC logo with both. NVIDIA essentially commandeered a lot of the FreeSync advertising with the “G-SYNC Compatible” sticker.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors

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witega
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Re: Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by witega » 27 Dec 2019, 02:40

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
24 Dec 2019, 17:13
GammaLyrae wrote:
24 Dec 2019, 15:52
The best 60hz strobing display on the market currently is an OLED TV which is a bit large for your typical desktop experience.
I have forwarded this email thread to ViewSonic to see if they will address this in a future firmware upgrade.

The XG270 does a fantastic job with RetroArch black frame insertion, and even the software-BFI-assisted 60Hz on XG270 looks superior to the 100% hardware single-strobing support found in the BenQ XL2411P.

Blur Busters General Opinion:
We think that hardware-based 60 Hz single-strobe should be a feature of all future strobed monitors, giving users a choice of whether or not to tolerate the flicker. Some people cannot handle it, while others are okay with it. Many monitors are tested in bright office light environments using bright windows (e.g. browser windows), which is when 60 Hz single-strobe is more uncomfortable and flicker. But others have no problem with 60 Hz single-strobe support in many video games (and emulators) at normal viewing distances. Then flicker is not as bad.
Chief I need your help with something, if you can.

How exactly did you get black frame insertion to work in RetroArch with the XG270? I have PureXP turned on, and my refresh rate is set to 120hz.

But whenever I try to turn on black frame insertion, it either gives me a black screen or it'll rapidly have large black lines going across the screen.

Is there a configuration file out there that I can use to make this work?

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Re: Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 28 Dec 2019, 14:25

witega wrote:
27 Dec 2019, 02:40
How exactly did you get black frame insertion to work in RetroArch with the XG270? I have PureXP turned on, and my refresh rate is set to 120hz.

But whenever I try to turn on black frame insertion, it either gives me a black screen or it'll rapidly have large black lines going across the screen.
That is what happens when you try to use VSYNC OFF with software BFI.

You absolutely need to use VSYNC ON (or other method of syncing fps=Hz) when you're using software-based black frame insertion. There's no way to have proper software BFI with VSYNC OFF. Correct 60 Hz software BFI looks like www.testufo.com/blackframes (try this at 120Hz PureXP).
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors

Captain Hammer
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Re: Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by Captain Hammer » 03 Jan 2020, 17:34

I'd love this, too. The days of games being locked to 60hz are ALMOST behind us (Halo: MCC and Sonic Mania are a couple of high-profile exceptions), but there will also be emulators, as well as games that can't get up to 120hz because of a CPU bottleneck.

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witega
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Re: Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by witega » 04 Jan 2020, 07:41

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
28 Dec 2019, 14:25
You absolutely need to use VSYNC ON (or other method of syncing fps=Hz) when you're using software-based black frame insertion. There's no way to have proper software BFI with VSYNC OFF. Correct 60 Hz software BFI looks like www.testufo.com/blackframes (try this at 120Hz PureXP).
Doh! Forgot to turn on VSYNC. Thanks Chief! 8-)

elexor
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Re: Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by elexor » 07 Jan 2020, 07:04

Hi this feature would be great. Alot of old consoles don't output at exactly 60hz would the monitor be-able to strobe at those precise refresh-rates for example snes 60.08 nes 59.94. I play my retro games on a MiSTer fpga device that emulates old consoles precisely and outputs 1080p hdmi with only a few scanlines of latency the output rate is identical to a real consoles. I really want the perfect monitor for this device. This would also help people using real consoles with an ossc a opensource linedoubler.

Those games were never designed to be played on a sample and hold screen the scrolling looks terrible with 16ms persistence. using a crt they are butter smooth but alas crts are disappearing and finding a good crt is getting harder and harder.

I did manage to get single strobe working with MiSTer on a benq xl2430t but strobbing performance is really subpar I think the adjustable persistence could be a huge deal scrolling in those games is pretty smooth if its under 4ms persistence.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

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