Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
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Falkentyne
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Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by Falkentyne » 14 Dec 2019, 23:31

Chief Blur Buster wrote:Why Should Gaming Monitor Manufacturers Add 60 Hz Single Strobe?
  1. There is 60 years of legacy 60fps 60Hz content. Videos, recordings, consoles, emulators, retro, etc.
    SOLUTION: Need 60Hz single-strobe support to reduce motion blur of legacy 60fps content. Single-strobe isn't for eye-searcing bright Windows desktop. 60Hz single-strobe is for SIXTY YEARS of existing legacy content, video/dvd/videotape/sports/youtube/consoles/emulators/etc. Testing departments (QA) should correctly test 60Hz single strobe on correct 60fps content.
    -
  2. Beginning in 2021, Blur Busters Approved makes 60Hz single-strobe mandatory.
    SOLUTION: Add menu ("Enable 60Hz Single Strobe [ON/OFF]") with it OFF by default to prevent user complaints. Advanced users should be able to intentionally enable this setting.
    -
  3. Strobing should be supported at all supported refresh rates.
    SOLUTION: Add menu ("Unlock Unsuppored Strobe Refresh Rates [ON/OFF]") to prevent user complaints. As Intel lets people unlock CPU clocks, monitor manufacturers should enable advanced users to uncap strobe ranges.
    -
  4. Most newer TVs support 60Hz single strobe
    SOLUTION: Just like for televisions, please let gaming monitors choose 60Hz s ingle-strobe. Not everyone is bothered by flicker. Sony 4K TVs, LG 4K TVs and Samsung 4K TVs now all support 60Hz single-strobe in Gaming Mode.
    -
  5. More users don't mind 60Hz single strobe than managers/engineers/lawyers at display manufacturers
    SOLUTION: Just add warning message ("Warning 60Hz Will Flicker. Discontinue If You Have Discomfort") to cover your bases, even if manufacturer employees don't like 60 Hz single strobe.
    -
  6. More and more reviewers lowers scores for monitors that don't support 60Hz single-strobe.
    SOLUTION: Just see the screenshot below from the RTINGS website! Please add 60 Hz single strobe support if you don't want lower review scores resulting in lower sales for your monitor!
Image
___________

To Viewsonic:

You are making an excellent monitor that is stealing the thunder from Asus and Benq's offerings, however one thing I feel you guys should implement is a 60hz blur reduction single strobe (one strobe per 16.7ms interval) at 60hz refresh rates. 60hz is an important setting because many PC console ports are locked to 60hz refresh rate, or 60 FPS otherwise. The Dark Souls and some other From Software games are also locked to 60hz/60 FPS, and Street Fighter 5, the most popular fighting game with crossplay capability, is also 60 FPS.

Also many arcade game emulators run at 60 FPS as well, so using 60hz/60 FPS with single strobing makes these games look arcade perfect in smoothness. The flicker eventually becomes an afterthought as backlight strobe flicker is only really noticeable on white backgrounds (e.g. browser windows).

Blur reduction at 60hz greatly improves image quality compared to blur reduction disabled. Images are a complete blurry mess with MBR off at 60hz.

Also, since these monitors can hook up to gaming consoles through HDMI that output 60hz only (or 50hz PAL), having the single strobe option will allow console users to buy this monitor and get smooth, blur free gaming by just enabling the service / OSD menu option to enable this.

The drawback to 60hz single strobe blur reduction is the backlight flicker that appears, and some people have health sensitive issues to flicker like this. This can be addressed by simply having "Double Strobe" as the default option at 60hz, which will strobe TWICE (meaning, two 8.3ms strobes, or otherwords, 120hz strobe timings) at 60hz, and then have the "Single Strobe" option available to be turned on for single frame strobing (with flicker). This way, anyone with problems with epileptic risks can simply disable this and double strobe.

Some monitors fall back to double strobing below 100hz, like the Benq original Z series (XL2411Z, XL2420Z, XL2720Z, XL2430T) below 96hz refresh rate, unless you enable the Single Strobe service menu option. This menu option has no effect at 100hz and higher, of course.

However, MANY People hate double strobing, because it creates a nasty double image effect to your eyes which looks very unnatural and can be more distracting than even MBR: Off. So it's important to have the option to enable "Single Strobing" at low refresh rates (depending on your regular single strobe cutoff happens, like 75hz, 60hz and in some cases, 50hz).

Thank you for your consideration in making firmware for this feature, and for working with Chief Blur Buster!

GammaLyrae
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Re: Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by GammaLyrae » 24 Dec 2019, 15:52

This would be a fantastic value add. You can fake it on PC using software (retroarch has a built in black frame insertion mode which works quite well) but this would still be great for connecting to consoles, or playing PC games that are locked to 60fps or play better at 60fps.

The best 60hz strobing display on the market currently is an OLED TV which is a bit large for your typical desktop experience.

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Re: Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 24 Dec 2019, 17:13

GammaLyrae wrote:
24 Dec 2019, 15:52
The best 60hz strobing display on the market currently is an OLED TV which is a bit large for your typical desktop experience.
I have forwarded this email thread to ViewSonic to see if they will address this in a future firmware upgrade.

The XG270 does a fantastic job with RetroArch black frame insertion, and even the software-BFI-assisted 60Hz on XG270 looks superior to the 100% hardware single-strobing support found in the BenQ XL2411P.

Blur Busters General Opinion:
We think that hardware-based 60 Hz single-strobe should be a feature of all future strobed monitors, giving users a choice of whether or not to tolerate the flicker. Some people cannot handle it, while others are okay with it. Many monitors are tested in bright office light environments using bright windows (e.g. browser windows), which is when 60 Hz single-strobe is more uncomfortable and flicker. But others have no problem with 60 Hz single-strobe support in many video games (and emulators) at normal viewing distances. Then flicker is not as bad.

EDIT To Add:
Chief Blur Buster wrote:Frequently Asked Questions by Manufacturers
AKA Blur Busters Myth Busting

Believe it or not, some vendors occasionaly mention it is a "Step Backwards", until I explained the use case was simply 60 years of 60fps 60Hz content, and I have proper QA testing instructions below:

Q: It Flickers Too Much
Answer: Most monitor-manufacturers engineers are not correctly testing 60Hz single-strobe. Not everybody is flicker sensitive. It is not for Microsoft Windows bright desktops; it's meant for legacy 60Hz content such as 60fps videos, 60fps emulators, 60fps consoles. Users should have the choice.

Q: We Already Double Strobe At 60Hz
Answer: Yes, some monitors such as BenQ already do, but it generates a double-image effect. See Duplicate Images on Impulsed Displays. Some users hate the duplicate images more, it's the same duplicate-image problem as CRT 30fps-at-60Hz when you double-strobe 60Hz-at-120flashes/sec. Please give users choice to single-strobe
Image

Q: Manufacturer Management Disapproved This Feature Due to Flicker
Answer: Unfortunately, this begins to eat into sales when reviewers lowers scores, users start demanding the feature more, and legacy content is ignored. Users often use gaming monitors for everything on their computers, including 60 years of legacy 60fps content. Management needs to re-evaluate feature again.

Q: Manufacturer is worried about user complaints
Answer: There is a solution! Just add an advanced setting "Allow 60Hz Single Strobe: ON/OFF" or a warning message "Warning: 60Hz will flicker. Please discontinue use if you get discomfort". You can make the default OFF, but allow advanced users to turn it on. That way, users won't complain until they intentionally enable this setting. Other manufacturers do this and they get no complaints!

Q: What About 240Hz and 360Hz Strobe?
Answer: Review websites give better reviews for a higher max Hz strobe, and Blur Busters Approved also makes it mandatory that max-Hz strobe is supported. For vendors (such as NVIDIA ULMB) concerned about poor quality, please offer a "Enable Unsupported ULMB Strobe Rates ON/OFF" feature, that is turned off by default. This will prevent complaints. All refresh rates 60Hz and up must be strobeable to be Blur Busters Approved. We have several monitors across multiple vendors in the rebooted 2021 Blur Busters Approved Version 1.6 (soon 2.0) queue.

Q: Our monitor is only for esports
Answer: In reality, users use their monitors for everything! Especially with better quality TN and IPS.

Q: Does It Cost Lots of Money at Scaler/TCON Vendor?
Answer: No, it's only a 1-line programming modification to firmware. It's easy to enable 60 Hz single strobe. Usually it looks okay with the same overdrive tuning programmed for 75Hz strobe or 85Hz strobe, since the low Hz makes it easy to hide GtG in a strobe backlight.

Q: How can our QA Testing Department Correctly Test 60Hz Single-Strobe?
Answer: It's not for Windows Desktop, it's for 60fps legacy content. Please test 60fps YouTube videos such as Redbull air races, 60fps POV downhill skiing, etc. Also please test 60fps emulators (RetroArch) with fast-motion games like Sonic Hedgehog. Also, please test 60fps frame rate locked consoles such as XBox and PlayStation. You will see 60fps single-strobe looks better with legacy 60fps content! Here are example videos to test 60Hz single strobe:
Try this with single strobe 60Hz ON/OFF.
You'll see big improvements with 60fps single-strobe motion blur reduction.

Thank You! 😊
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors

Falkentyne
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Re: Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by Falkentyne » 25 Dec 2019, 18:21

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
24 Dec 2019, 17:13
GammaLyrae wrote:
24 Dec 2019, 15:52
The best 60hz strobing display on the market currently is an OLED TV which is a bit large for your typical desktop experience.
I have forwarded this email thread to ViewSonic to see if they will address this in a future firmware upgrade.

The XG270 does a fantastic job with RetroArch black frame insertion, and even the software-BFI-assisted 60Hz on XG270 looks superior to the 100% hardware single-strobing support found in the BenQ XL2411P.

Blur Busters General Opinion:
We think that hardware-based 60 Hz single-strobe should be a feature of all future strobed monitors, giving users a choice of whether or not to tolerate the flicker. Some people cannot handle it, while others are okay with it. Many monitors are tested in bright office light environments using bright windows (e.g. browser windows), which is when 60 Hz single-strobe is more uncomfortable and flicker. But others have no problem with 60 Hz single-strobe support in many video games (and emulators) at normal viewing distances. Then flicker is not as bad.
Chief, please let me know as soon as you can if they release a firmware to add this.
I'll buy the monitor (Freesync/adaptive sync version) as soon as they do. I'm still confused as to what model is what however.

I'm holding off until then because I want to make sure it can do 60hz SS or there's a firmware on blurbusters archive for us to upgrade to :)

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Re: Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 26 Dec 2019, 20:31

XG270 is the FreeSync one (G-SYNC Compatible)
XG270QC is the native G-SYNC one (not compatible with FreeSync).

ViewSonic uses the G-SYNC logo with both. NVIDIA essentially commandeered a lot of the FreeSync advertising with the “G-SYNC Compatible” sticker.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors

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witega
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Re: Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by witega » 27 Dec 2019, 02:40

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
24 Dec 2019, 17:13
GammaLyrae wrote:
24 Dec 2019, 15:52
The best 60hz strobing display on the market currently is an OLED TV which is a bit large for your typical desktop experience.
I have forwarded this email thread to ViewSonic to see if they will address this in a future firmware upgrade.

The XG270 does a fantastic job with RetroArch black frame insertion, and even the software-BFI-assisted 60Hz on XG270 looks superior to the 100% hardware single-strobing support found in the BenQ XL2411P.

Blur Busters General Opinion:
We think that hardware-based 60 Hz single-strobe should be a feature of all future strobed monitors, giving users a choice of whether or not to tolerate the flicker. Some people cannot handle it, while others are okay with it. Many monitors are tested in bright office light environments using bright windows (e.g. browser windows), which is when 60 Hz single-strobe is more uncomfortable and flicker. But others have no problem with 60 Hz single-strobe support in many video games (and emulators) at normal viewing distances. Then flicker is not as bad.
Chief I need your help with something, if you can.

How exactly did you get black frame insertion to work in RetroArch with the XG270? I have PureXP turned on, and my refresh rate is set to 120hz.

But whenever I try to turn on black frame insertion, it either gives me a black screen or it'll rapidly have large black lines going across the screen.

Is there a configuration file out there that I can use to make this work?

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Re: Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 28 Dec 2019, 14:25

witega wrote:
27 Dec 2019, 02:40
How exactly did you get black frame insertion to work in RetroArch with the XG270? I have PureXP turned on, and my refresh rate is set to 120hz.

But whenever I try to turn on black frame insertion, it either gives me a black screen or it'll rapidly have large black lines going across the screen.
That is what happens when you try to use VSYNC OFF with software BFI.

You absolutely need to use VSYNC ON (or other method of syncing fps=Hz) when you're using software-based black frame insertion. There's no way to have proper software BFI with VSYNC OFF. Correct 60 Hz software BFI looks like www.testufo.com/blackframes (try this at 120Hz PureXP).
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors

Captain Hammer
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Re: Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by Captain Hammer » 03 Jan 2020, 17:34

I'd love this, too. The days of games being locked to 60hz are ALMOST behind us (Halo: MCC and Sonic Mania are a couple of high-profile exceptions), but there will also be emulators, as well as games that can't get up to 120hz because of a CPU bottleneck.

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witega
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Re: Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by witega » 04 Jan 2020, 07:41

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
28 Dec 2019, 14:25
You absolutely need to use VSYNC ON (or other method of syncing fps=Hz) when you're using software-based black frame insertion. There's no way to have proper software BFI with VSYNC OFF. Correct 60 Hz software BFI looks like www.testufo.com/blackframes (try this at 120Hz PureXP).
Doh! Forgot to turn on VSYNC. Thanks Chief! 8-)

elexor
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Re: Dear ViewSonic: Please Add 60 Hz Single-Strobe for PureXP on XG270

Post by elexor » 07 Jan 2020, 07:04

Hi this feature would be great. Alot of old consoles don't output at exactly 60hz would the monitor be-able to strobe at those precise refresh-rates for example snes 60.08 nes 59.94. I play my retro games on a MiSTer fpga device that emulates old consoles precisely and outputs 1080p hdmi with only a few scanlines of latency the output rate is identical to a real consoles. I really want the perfect monitor for this device. This would also help people using real consoles with an ossc a opensource linedoubler.

Those games were never designed to be played on a sample and hold screen the scrolling looks terrible with 16ms persistence. using a crt they are butter smooth but alas crts are disappearing and finding a good crt is getting harder and harder.

I did manage to get single strobe working with MiSTer on a benq xl2430t but strobbing performance is really subpar I think the adjustable persistence could be a huge deal scrolling in those games is pretty smooth if its under 4ms persistence.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

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