Panasonic Plasma VT60

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
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GameLifter
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Panasonic Plasma VT60

Post by GameLifter » 24 Feb 2020, 13:51

I recently picked up a Panasonic Plasma VT60 which was one of the last great plasma displays released by Panasonic (the only better Panasonic plasma is the ZT60) and I was really impressed with it's motion clarity. Plasma displays refresh their screen differently than LCDs and OLEDs by sending pulses to the pixels every 1/10th of a second which in terms of 60Hz content means each frame is 10 pulses. This is where the "600Hz" refresh rate rating comes from and what is referred to as a sub-field drive.

This method of refreshing the screen yields better motion clarity than a typical LCD or OLED. The VT60 is rated as having a 3000Hz sub-field drive and I can see the improvements in motion clarity over other plasmas I've had. Sure, the motion clarity of a plasma isn't quite as good as a CRT or LCD with strobing but it's still satisfactory and it's cool that the motion clarity is inherent to the technology.

I understand that plasma displays aren't ideal as PC gaming monitors due to the risk of burn-in and higher input lag but from a motion clarity standpoint they are interesting displays.

nuninho1980
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Re: Panasonic Plasma VT60

Post by nuninho1980 » 24 Feb 2020, 19:22

600Hz sub-field drive is good but the disadvantages of sub-field drive are:
- 600Hz (for PAL on Europe) doesn't work at 60Hz while 720Hz (for NTSC America, Japan...) not work at 50Hz
- micro-stutters and/or artifacts for irregular - examples - horizontal/vertical lines, cross nets
...

But plasma isn't similar to CRT because the plasma gets SOFT flicker while CRT is much hard flicker and it's little harder than LED backlight. ;)
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AddictFPS
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Re: Panasonic Plasma VT60

Post by AddictFPS » 24 Feb 2020, 23:53

SED and FED screens technologies are also very interesting, flat and slim CRT, unfortunately never touch the market, only prototipes :(

I have the impression, that if whit modern manufacturing tecniques, one big gaming monitor manufacturer rebird today one of this beast, many were going to stay with their mouths open compared to current LED tech.

Sony show FED screen with 240Hz in older CES, is like CRT, impulsed display with 4,16ms refresh :D , not need strobe that adds input lag, is native impulse display, i think this beast could only be beated by future MicroLED. One shame that Sony ended up FED development :(

Gran Turismo 5 car game with 240FPS/Hz monitor at year 2008 !! ;)

http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/20/sony ... t-240-fps/

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More impressive than monitor is the man jacket Image

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GameLifter
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Re: Panasonic Plasma VT60

Post by GameLifter » 25 Feb 2020, 21:30

nuninho1980 wrote:
24 Feb 2020, 19:22
600Hz sub-field drive is good but the disadvantages of sub-field drive are:
- 600Hz (for PAL on Europe) doesn't work at 60Hz while 720Hz (for NTSC America, Japan...) not work at 50Hz
- micro-stutters and/or artifacts for irregular - examples - horizontal/vertical lines, cross nets
...

But plasma isn't similar to CRT because the plasma gets SOFT flicker while CRT is much hard flicker and it's little harder than LED backlight. ;)
With the sub-field drive you can also get the double image effect with 30fps content.

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GameLifter
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Re: Panasonic Plasma VT60

Post by GameLifter » 25 Feb 2020, 21:32

AddictFPS wrote:
24 Feb 2020, 23:53
SED and FED screens technologies are also very interesting, flat and slim CRT, unfortunately never touch the market, only prototipes :(

I have the impression, that if whit modern manufacturing tecniques, one big gaming monitor manufacturer rebird today one of this beast, many were going to stay with their mouths open compared to current LED tech.

Sony show FED screen with 240Hz in older CES, is like CRT, impulsed display with 4,16ms refresh :D , not need strobe that adds input lag, is native impulse display, i think this beast could only be beated by future MicroLED. One shame that Sony ended up FED development :(

Gran Turismo 5 car game with 240FPS/Hz monitor at year 2008 !! ;)

http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/20/sony ... t-240-fps/

Image

Image

More impressive than monitor is the man jacket Image
I remember when SED and FED screens were announced and later cancelled. They had potential so it was a shame they were never released.

Dmoney405
Posts: 47
Joined: 01 Mar 2020, 01:14

Re: Panasonic Plasma VT60

Post by Dmoney405 » 14 Mar 2020, 18:20

GameLifter wrote:
24 Feb 2020, 13:51
I recently picked up a Panasonic Plasma VT60 which was one of the last great plasma displays released by Panasonic (the only better Panasonic plasma is the ZT60) and I was really impressed with it's motion clarity. Plasma displays refresh their screen differently than LCDs and OLEDs by sending pulses to the pixels every 1/10th of a second which in terms of 60Hz content means each frame is 10 pulses. This is where the "600Hz" refresh rate rating comes from and what is referred to as a sub-field drive.

This method of refreshing the screen yields better motion clarity than a typical LCD or OLED. The VT60 is rated as having a 3000Hz sub-field drive and I can see the improvements in motion clarity over other plasmas I've had. Sure, the motion clarity of a plasma isn't quite as good as a CRT or LCD with strobing but it's still satisfactory and it's cool that the motion clarity is inherent to the technology.

I understand that plasma displays aren't ideal as PC gaming monitors due to the risk of burn-in and higher input lag but from a motion clarity standpoint they are interesting displays.
I've got myself an P42ST30 and the motion clarity is decent but the input lag kinda kills it. At the time it was basically the best at only 16ms lag (1 frame @60hz) but in todays age it doesn't really keep up. Using a mouse on it is very laggy so it can only be used on consoles. Even though I had this TV i still chose to just hook up the hdmi to my VG236he monitor.

The real issue with plasma 'refresh rates' is that they don't follow the same scale of input lag. So you see giant numbers and motion is okay but it still feels like crap to play. This is opposed to the difference of 60hz and 144hz+ panels where there is a linear scale of reduction in input lag as you go up. This is not the same case in the plasma world, unfortunately. Since you need both motion clarity and low input lag levels to have an overall good experience it kinda stops this in it's tracks.

It's nice to talk about these again though, I really miss good plasmas and I feel like they could have been explored further...but one day they just gave up or something. I had no idea and sold my P65VT50 I had in storage and figured I would just buy the new model when I moved. Well, new ones never came out lol :(.

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GameLifter
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Re: Panasonic Plasma VT60

Post by GameLifter » 18 Mar 2020, 20:04

Dmoney405 wrote:
14 Mar 2020, 18:20
GameLifter wrote:
24 Feb 2020, 13:51
I recently picked up a Panasonic Plasma VT60 which was one of the last great plasma displays released by Panasonic (the only better Panasonic plasma is the ZT60) and I was really impressed with it's motion clarity. Plasma displays refresh their screen differently than LCDs and OLEDs by sending pulses to the pixels every 1/10th of a second which in terms of 60Hz content means each frame is 10 pulses. This is where the "600Hz" refresh rate rating comes from and what is referred to as a sub-field drive.

This method of refreshing the screen yields better motion clarity than a typical LCD or OLED. The VT60 is rated as having a 3000Hz sub-field drive and I can see the improvements in motion clarity over other plasmas I've had. Sure, the motion clarity of a plasma isn't quite as good as a CRT or LCD with strobing but it's still satisfactory and it's cool that the motion clarity is inherent to the technology.

I understand that plasma displays aren't ideal as PC gaming monitors due to the risk of burn-in and higher input lag but from a motion clarity standpoint they are interesting displays.
I've got myself an P42ST30 and the motion clarity is decent but the input lag kinda kills it. At the time it was basically the best at only 16ms lag (1 frame @60hz) but in todays age it doesn't really keep up. Using a mouse on it is very laggy so it can only be used on consoles. Even though I had this TV i still chose to just hook up the hdmi to my VG236he monitor.

The real issue with plasma 'refresh rates' is that they don't follow the same scale of input lag. So you see giant numbers and motion is okay but it still feels like crap to play. This is opposed to the difference of 60hz and 144hz+ panels where there is a linear scale of reduction in input lag as you go up. This is not the same case in the plasma world, unfortunately. Since you need both motion clarity and low input lag levels to have an overall good experience it kinda stops this in it's tracks.

It's nice to talk about these again though, I really miss good plasmas and I feel like they could have been explored further...but one day they just gave up or something. I had no idea and sold my P65VT50 I had in storage and figured I would just buy the new model when I moved. Well, new ones never came out lol :(.
Panasonic's last plasma models were released in 2013 and from what I've gathered they were released in limited quantities. I missed out on the really good ones when they were new but found this used VT60 for a good price locally. I have my older generation consoles like the 360 and PS3 hooked up to it and they look excellent. Plasma's definitely have a unique look to them.

dhaine
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Re: Panasonic Plasma VT60

Post by dhaine » 19 Mar 2020, 20:56

I still use my 50" ST30, I'm always annoyed by the double-image blur, BUT it's actualler better than my OLED C7 which has even worse blur.
Only C8/C9 or the incoming CX has finally good blur thanks to the optional BFI mode
I use Rayman Legends music levels to test the motion blur of a TV (there's a demo available for free on every consoles)

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GameLifter
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Re: Panasonic Plasma VT60

Post by GameLifter » 19 Mar 2020, 23:21

dhaine wrote:
19 Mar 2020, 20:56
I still use my 50" ST30, I'm always annoyed by the double-image blur, BUT it's actualler better than my OLED C7 which has even worse blur.
Only C8/C9 or the incoming CX has finally good blur thanks to the optional BFI mode
I use Rayman Legends music levels to test the motion blur of a TV (there's a demo available for free on every consoles)
I'm very much looking forward to the OLED CX. Some people have started getting theirs.

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