Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
Angel Soler
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Joined: 14 Apr 2020, 17:49

Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by Angel Soler » 24 Nov 2020, 06:05

elexor wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 01:34
Angel Soler wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 00:57
Angel Soler wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 08:56
CubanLegend wrote:
22 Nov 2020, 09:13

I misspoke, my apologies. I meant to ask "where can i find examples of 60hz SINGLE strobing" like with a comparison pursuit photos?

I'm looking for the amazing 120Hz XG270 level of motion clarity at 60hz as well.. and is there any monitor that offers both those options?
I Think dosent exit.
When it exits.....I will be the first to buy it !!! ☺️

LG CX OLED is very smooth in 60 hz strobe mode, BUT add too input lag
I think that you want to see this:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7732

This photos are my monitor ( Xl 2411p) 60 hz single strobe. As you can see, the crosstalk only is in 1/4 of screen
I really don't think single strobe is worth it unless you can completely hide the crosstalk. in 2d games it will stand out like a sore thumb.
true, but when there is no other option ...

Of course the ideal would be to eliminate blurring and crosstalk completely, but at 60hz, at the moment, I don't know of a better option than the XL2411P.

It has nothing blurring, the input lag is negligible with the strobe (I play fighting games at a very high competitive level and I do not perceive any lag. And I have been with CRT until May of this year, the Sony Triniton G500).

And on top of that, thanks to the Blur Buster application the crosstalk can be calibrated and moved.

Let's see if this year a monitor comes out like the XG270 but that it can also do strobe at 60 hz.

And it is true that in 2D games it is more noticeable, but in 3D games it is negligible :).

Also, normally the gaze of the player is always focused on the upper 2/3 of the screen.

For all this I think it is the best option for consoles at the moment.

Of course, another thing is to join 2 monitors as you have done, but for that you have to have a minimum knowledge of electronics.

For those of us who do not have that knowledge, the best solution on the market is this monitor.

Cheers

nuninho1980
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Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by nuninho1980 » 24 Nov 2020, 19:33

elexor wrote:
21 Nov 2020, 01:14
Never tested the XL2411

XL2411 could be different i don't know.
I had XL2411P but I sold it in past june for the lack of firmware. 60Hz + strobe was very good for almost no motion blur and good minimum crosstalk but 50Hz is bad.

- watch my video -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZYWJdCaKjw ;)

But I'm using "new" CRT monitor 19" Samtron 95P Plus - this is better than XL2411P - I'm very happy. :)
PC specs:
CPU: i7-4790K
RAM: 2x8GB DDR3@2400MHz
MB: ASUS Z97-Pro Gamer
GPU: EVGA GTX 980 Ti SC+ :D
Opt. disc: LG BD-RE writer BH16NS40
HDDs: SATA both 1TB+3TB
SSD: OCZ RD400 512GB
PSU: AEROCOOL 1kW 80+ Gold
Disly: CRT monitor 19" Samtron 95p+

elexor
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Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by elexor » 25 Nov 2020, 08:14

Some hard numbers for LG CX OLED BFI HIGH 60hz

Image

middle will be about 34ms?

Not horrible, I need to see how bad the brightness loss is in person 4ms persistence is perfect for up scaled 240p retro gaming. But I think 4ms is not enough for super crisp high def motion. sure beats sample and hold tho.

Angel Soler
Posts: 28
Joined: 14 Apr 2020, 17:49

Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by Angel Soler » 25 Nov 2020, 11:26

elexor wrote:
25 Nov 2020, 08:14
Some hard numbers for LG CX OLED BFI HIGH 60hz

Image

middle will be about 34ms?

Not horrible, I need to see how bad the brightness loss is in person 4ms persistence is perfect for up scaled 240p retro gaming. But I think 4ms is not enough for super crisp high def motion. sure beats sample and hold tho.
Hello elexor!! ☺️

IMHO, 34 ms is too much, dont you think?

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AddictFPS
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Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by AddictFPS » 25 Nov 2020, 14:42

Thanks ! ;)

You know the TV model number ? there are at least 6 versions of OLED48CX(---), depending country. Firmware version ?

I remenber your suspicions about LG CX firmware is not doing a perfect BFI implementation, causing more than expected input lag Vs non strobed.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7161&start=40#p56587

Suspicions were about frame and blacks order, doing (Off, Off, Off, Frame) instead of (Frame, Off, Off, Off). Now you think "High" is doing the correct one + one frame buffer ? 16.6 buffer + 9.54 default lag = 26.14 , this has sense, coincides with your BFI measurement.

Image

Rtings measure fixed 60Hz non strobed 13.6ms without specifing firmware version, your measurement now 9.54, seems firmware improvement. The old 60Hz BFI High 30ms is now 26 :)

If this is right, the question is, why BFI need buffer one frame ? OLED response time (100% GtG) is almost instant (~1ms), no wait time to hide GtG like strobing with LCD, so the correct BFI implementation would be, in 4.16ms steps:

Low: (Frame, Hold, Hold, Off) 12.48 MPRT 180nits
Medium: (Frame, Hold, Off, Off) 8.32 MPRT 120nits
High: (Frame, Off, Off, Off) 4.16 MPRT 60nits

LG CX seems is not doing this at least at Medium, where apply double strobing, (Frame, Off, Frame, Off) ? destroying the strobing goal, with unbearable double image. TFTCentral image:

Image

I think 8ms MPRT would be much more usefull for people than agree trade doubled motion blur to get double brightness, 60nits is realy very low, brightness drop at the three different settings can be seen in this HDTVTest review:

phpBB [video]


Well explained settings review, thanks you Vincent Teoh :)

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 25 Nov 2020, 16:11

elexor wrote:
25 Nov 2020, 08:14
Not horrible, I need to see how bad the brightness loss is in person 4ms persistence is perfect for up scaled 240p retro gaming. But I think 4ms is not enough for super crisp high def motion. sure beats sample and hold tho.
All of the CX series is currently the gold standard in TV-sized strobing. Cleaner motion and less motion blur than even a Pioneer Plasma HDTV! With zero strobe crosstalk.

4ms MPRT allows strobed 60Hz (1/240sec frame flashes) to have the motion clarity of 240Hz nonstrobed (1/240sec frame visibility time), in a TV sized form factor.

The Medium setting is indeed b0Яk3d as a double strobe, presumably as a flicker-reduction priority over motion-reduction priority. Most users of BFI would prefer flicker reduction, so it's strange. They could have added multiple settings like "Low, Medium, High, Double Strobe" so people can choose preferred priority (double strobe versus blur reduction). But let's be nice to LG, they brought out something that finally beat a plasma HDTV. Which we can rejoice about; plasma finally being dethroned in motion clarity! Let's hope C11 is even better...

The motion blur is still noticeable in HD motion, but it's currently the best we've got at these screen sizes at the moment in direct-view flat panel TVs at consumer prices.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

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elexor
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Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by elexor » 25 Nov 2020, 18:50

Just to be clear that's bob from retrorgb.com, I asked him to test BFI lag after he posted an inputlag video featuring the CX. The tv he tested was a OLED77CXPUA.

34ms isn't so bad it's about 1.5 frames behind a crt, I hope lg does that dual on off pass scanning to get the lag similar to the normal modes. maybe the next generation? one can dream.
Rtings measure fixed 60Hz non strobed 13.6ms without specifing firmware version, your measurement now 9.54, seems firmware improvement. The old 60Hz BFI High 30ms is now 26
He's measuring from the top rtings measures from the middle i think.
"The Medium setting is indeed b0Яk3d as a double strobe"
It's a real shame we didn't get a 8ms persistence single strobe mode, I have used this mode via retroarch with 120hz on a b7 oled and it's pretty good some people would take the extra brightness and still achieve a half reduction in blur.

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 25 Nov 2020, 23:25

elexor wrote:
25 Nov 2020, 18:50
Rtings measure fixed 60Hz non strobed 13.6ms without specifing firmware version, your measurement now 9.54, seems firmware improvement. The old 60Hz BFI High 30ms is now 26
That's a 1/240sec improvement. On surface, this could be the BFI sequence was slightly rejigged.
elexor wrote:
25 Nov 2020, 18:50
He's measuring from the top rtings measures from the middle i think.
...But that could explain the 4.2ms difference. Screen location matters a lot, since not all pixels refreshes at the same time, as seen at High Speed Videos of LCD Refreshing

Can somebody PLEASE point a 960fps high speed camera at an LG C9 or LG CX while viewing www.testufo.com/scanout :D

I want video clips of all the BFI modes. I'm surprised few people have tried to high-speed-video-test BFI scanouts, given the widespread emergence of the recent Samsung cameras. Most Samsung Galaxy series S9 / S10 / S11 have a 960fps high speed camera feature, although some top out at 480fps.

And even an old Sony Experia XZ Premium (<$200 on eBay) has the same 960fps sony sensor that does 960fps 720p high definition ultra-high-speed video perfect for scanout analysis.
elexor wrote:
25 Nov 2020, 18:50
"The Medium setting is indeed b0Яk3d as a double strobe"
It's a real shame we didn't get a 8ms persistence single strobe mode, I have used this mode via retroarch with 120hz on a b7 oled and it's pretty good some people would take the extra brightness and still achieve a half reduction in blur.
Fortunately, you can do that with an LG CX too. Turn LG CX BFI off, and use the software BFI instead. Works just fine.

In my experience, software BFI and hardware BFI looks practically identical on OLEDs, because of the way OLEDs work, because the hardware & software algorithms have to do something very similar to the actual OLED pixels when it comes to OLED technologies.

There are minor differences, but most of that is simply caused by slight different processing behaviors of BFI and non-BFI operations (including OLED pixel power management changes, so brightness may be different). But on many OLEDs, it looks exactly identical because the pixel black is OLED GtG-powered in both hardware BFI and software BFI cases (no strobe backlight, so BFI necessitates OLED GtG regardless of hardware BFI or software BFI).
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
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       • List of FreeSync Monitors
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CubanLegend
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Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by CubanLegend » 26 Nov 2020, 12:19

Angel Soler wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 00:57
Angel Soler wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 08:56
CubanLegend wrote:
22 Nov 2020, 09:13
elexor wrote:
21 Nov 2020, 01:14
Never tested the XL2411

I have used single strobe with a XL2430 and there's just no hiding the crosstalk band with that monitor. pretty much makes it a non starter for me. The problem is it can't support more then a 1350VT.

XL2411 could be different i don't know.
I misspoke, my apologies. I meant to ask "where can i find examples of 60hz SINGLE strobing" like with a comparison pursuit photos?

I'm looking for the amazing 120Hz XG270 level of motion clarity at 60hz as well.. and is there any monitor that offers both those options?
I Think dosent exit.
When it exits.....I will be the first to buy it !!! ☺️

LG CX OLED is very smooth in 60 hz strobe mode, BUT add too input lag
I think that you want to see this:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7732

This photos are my monitor ( Xl 2411p) 60 hz single strobe. As you can see, the crosstalk only is in 1/4 of screen
THANK YOU! wow that Xl2411P looks amazing for 60Hz Single Strobe!.. how does it compare to the Benq XL2420Z? I'm looking to purchase a 60Hz single strobe monitor while i wait for the new monitors coming later next year..

Angel Soler
Posts: 28
Joined: 14 Apr 2020, 17:49

Re: Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options

Post by Angel Soler » 28 Nov 2020, 14:48

CubanLegend wrote:
26 Nov 2020, 12:19
Angel Soler wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 00:57
Angel Soler wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 08:56
CubanLegend wrote:
22 Nov 2020, 09:13

I misspoke, my apologies. I meant to ask "where can i find examples of 60hz SINGLE strobing" like with a comparison pursuit photos?

I'm looking for the amazing 120Hz XG270 level of motion clarity at 60hz as well.. and is there any monitor that offers both those options?
I Think dosent exit.
When it exits.....I will be the first to buy it !!! ☺️

LG CX OLED is very smooth in 60 hz strobe mode, BUT add too input lag
I think that you want to see this:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7732

This photos are my monitor ( Xl 2411p) 60 hz single strobe. As you can see, the crosstalk only is in 1/4 of screen
THANK YOU! wow that Xl2411P looks amazing for 60Hz Single Strobe!.. how does it compare to the Benq XL2420Z? I'm looking to purchase a 60Hz single strobe monitor while i wait for the new monitors coming later next year..
I havent seen the XL2420. I cant help you .
But, the XL2411P was recomended by Chief .
It does very good 60 hz strobe , is very easy to get, is compatible with Blur Buster Utility...and, a very important aspect, has negible input lag ☺️.

For me is the perfect display for console gaming until the new monitor’s arrival 2021

Greetings

Sorry for my english. Im spanish ☺️

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