It's a shame that plasma tech is dead

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
mango87
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It's a shame that plasma tech is dead

Post by mango87 » 02 Jan 2021, 21:20

My Panasonic plasma TV from 2010 has incredible motion clarity. I don't think anything comes close to plasma with motion clarity. There's less eye straining too because the flickering is at 600hz. Imagine if we had plasma computer monitors. *Sigh*

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jorimt
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Re: It's a shame that plasma tech is dead

Post by jorimt » 02 Jan 2021, 22:06

mango87 wrote:
02 Jan 2021, 21:20
My Panasonic plasma TV from 2010 has incredible motion clarity. I don't think anything comes close to plasma with motion clarity. There's less eye straining too because the flickering is at 600hz. Imagine if we had plasma computer monitors. *Sigh*
Plasma was indeed excellent in the motion clarity department; I had an Panny ST60 myself.

Much like CRT, however, it had practical limitations for reaching Ultra HD and beyond, and even if we were talking a hypothetical ~24" 1080p plasma monitor, you'd still have to deal with high energy consumption/heat output, much more aggressive ABL and higher burn-in potential than OLED, phospor decay (trailing artifacts during motion), heavy/bulky form factor, etc.

It would be nice if they could develop a self-emitting display technology that wasn't natively sample-and-hold though, but it would be difficult to do so while retaining (especially HDR-capable) brightness levels, at least where modern expectations are concerned.
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Re: It's a shame that plasma tech is dead

Post by thatoneguy » 02 Jan 2021, 22:57

jorimt wrote:
02 Jan 2021, 22:06
Much like CRT, however, it had practical limitations for reaching Ultra HD and beyond
Pretty sure a ton of CRT Monitors could push 3200x2400 or even more.
Plasma consumed even more power than CRT however so not sure it could pull it off.

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Re: It's a shame that plasma tech is dead

Post by nuninho1980 » 03 Jan 2021, 03:36

Not true - the motion clarity is not incredible on any plasma TV. We get motion blur without high Hz sub-field. At 60Hz, BenQ XL2411P is much better motion clarity on than any plasma TV (not monochrome plasma monitor).
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jorimt
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Re: It's a shame that plasma tech is dead

Post by jorimt » 03 Jan 2021, 10:07

thatoneguy wrote:
02 Jan 2021, 22:57
Pretty sure a ton of CRT Monitors could push 3200x2400 or even more.
I'm no CRT expert, but I'm pretty sure the CRT resolution increases you're referring to were only possible in a certain context, and when such progressive resolutions were tried at higher refresh rates, you'd run into physically undefeatable issues.

See sources such as:
https://www.quora.com/Could-we-have-mad ... n-Van-Duyn
nuninho1980 wrote:
03 Jan 2021, 03:36
Not true - the motion clarity is not incredible on any plasma TV. We get motion blur without high Hz sub-field. At 60Hz, BenQ XL2411P is much better motion clarity on than any plasma TV (not monochrome plasma monitor).
When compared directly to other BFI implementation, sure, not "incredible" in all cases, but when compared to sample-and-hold, plasma motion clarity could be relatively "incredible," at least that's what I think the OP was inferring.
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AddictFPS
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Re: It's a shame that plasma tech is dead

Post by AddictFPS » 03 Jan 2021, 11:48

If CRT/Plasma/SED/FED would have evolved until today, serious gaming screens for sure. In 2008 Sony showed FHD 240Hz FED screen, 2008 !! :D

https://lemondenumerique.ouest-france.f ... 0-hz.html/

Image

Its a shame Sony abandon this amazing project, dream broked. FED can do 240FPS/Hz VSync On without motion blur, without input lag, without ghosting and crosstalk, from 2008. But is 2021 and LCD 240FPS/Hz strobed screens suffer crosstalk and input lag due to massive GtG bottleneck.

https://www.aperturegrille.com/features ... #Feature-3

I realy prefer phosphor trail than current LCD limits, like my lovely CRT 21", motion experience is better, 0 input lag, straight GPU pixelclock to scanout beam :D Lets hope MicroLED reach stores soon, this diamond will make we forget the breaked dream ;)

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Re: It's a shame that plasma tech is dead

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 03 Jan 2021, 22:37

AddictFPS wrote:
03 Jan 2021, 11:48
FED can do 240FPS/Hz VSync On without motion blur, without input lag, without ghosting and crosstalk, from 2008.
Not correct. Have you seen a FED? It had a lot of digital-like artifacts (like plasma/DLP, either noise in darks / temporal dithering / contouring artifacts / etc.). If you actually feasted your eyeballs on an actual FED from 2008, it does not exhibit the same appearance of a CRT. It was a neat technology, but was stillborn. Pioneer Plasma looked better than prototype FED at the time.

CRT is still vastly superior. Hold onto your CRT even if FEDs come out. :D
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Re: It's a shame that plasma tech is dead

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 03 Jan 2021, 22:45

mango87 wrote:
02 Jan 2021, 21:20
My Panasonic plasma TV from 2010 has incredible motion clarity. I don't think anything comes close to plasma with motion clarity. There's less eye straining too because the flickering is at 600hz. Imagine if we had plasma computer monitors. *Sigh*
Not because of 600 Hz, but because of the phosphor decay. The 600Hz flicker was compressed (at 10 compressed pulses per 60Hz refresh cycle). So when you had bright motion, you were essentially getting 60 effective flickers per second after the compressed series of flickers merged into one effective flicker, but phosphor caused a gentle fade effect afterwards to soften the harshness of the flicker. That will be the dominant effect of the gentleness of flicker.

BTW, you can finally now get better motion clarity than Pioneer Plasma with the newer LG CX OLED + BFI on maximum setting.

Also, a good 24"-to-27" strobed desktop LCD with single-strobe 60 Hz blows away a Pioneer Plasma. I have one of the world's first single-strobe-60Hz-capable 240Hz IPS LCD sitting on my desk right now -- it is not yet announced.

Also, the Oculus Quest 2 VR headset has less than 1/10th the motion blur of a Pioneer plasma LCD, and it has a single-strobe 60 Hz mode.

All the options listed in Good News Everyone: 60Hz Single Strobe Options have less motion blur than a Pioneer Plasma, though not necessarily as good colors as a Pioneer Plasma.

I visit conventions (except for most of 2020) and see thousands of displays, and the Pioneer Plasma was successfully dethroned in motion clarity. It was a long time coming, but it has finally happened. That said, the phosphor-decay made Pioneer Plasma able to reduce motion blur more gently with less flicker strain.

About motion blur see CRT Nirvana Guide For Dissapointed CRT-to-LCD Upgraders.
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Re: It's a shame that plasma tech is dead

Post by mango87 » 03 Jan 2021, 23:03

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I've learned a lot since joining here. I'm completely obsessed with motion clarity now. Will definitely be on the lookout for the next best monitor.

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Re: It's a shame that plasma tech is dead

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 04 Jan 2021, 00:34

mango87 wrote:
03 Jan 2021, 23:03
Thanks for the replies, everyone. I've learned a lot since joining here. I'm completely obsessed with motion clarity now. Will definitely be on the lookout for the next best monitor.
If you're wanting to learn more about basic "motion blur physics", check out the advanced articles in Blur Busters Area 51. They are very educational reads for advanced readers.
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       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors

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