Large monitor with strobing for 60hz (Tekken 7, Sonic Mania, etc)

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
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genbaku
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Large monitor with strobing for 60hz (Tekken 7, Sonic Mania, etc)

Post by genbaku » 18 Feb 2021, 07:31

Hello there,

I currently have an LG B8 OLED which I use to play games at 60hz using black frame insertion. I also have a 60hz (600hz) Panasonic plasma which I sometimes use. On my desk I have a simple 24" IPS Asus 60hz monitor.

I'm looking to get a desk monitor ( preferably between 27" and 32") to mainly play 60hz games such as Tekken 7 and fast scrolling 2D games such as Sonic Mania. I might play the odd game at 120hz, but my PC only has a 1050ti.

What does everyone recommend as monitor with strobing that can deliver similar or better motion resolution performance to that of an OLED (bfi) or plasma? I see that the XL2411P is recommended, but the panel is TN and is only 24". Will the motion resolution of this monitor make up for the lack of colour being a TN panel? Will the strobing be that much better than a plasma or OLED?

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Re: Large monitor with strobing for 60hz (Tekken 7, Sonic Mania, etc)

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 18 Feb 2021, 12:19

TN option with native 60 Hz single strobe
Early used XL2720 series, 27” TN.

IPS option if using emulation: Viewsonic XG270
Are you playing emulation? If so, you can purchase any 120Hz-strobe-capable IPS panel and use the RetroArch software black frame insertion feature to convert 120Hz hardware strobe to 60Hz hardware strobe (the software BFI blacks out every other hardware strobe).

Other than these options, one of the Blur Busters Approved “strobe-any-Hz” models of 27” IPS I will be working on, will likely come out by approximately Christmas 2021 (tentative, unconfirmed). Apologies it is a bit long/indefinite of a wait for additional 60 Hz single strobe options, but it’s almost a miracle I convinced manufacturers to add 60 Hz single strobe — and for some models, it is so early in a typical 12-month monitor engineering cycle.

There is a 24” single-strobe any-Hz IPS model coming out this year.
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Jason38
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Re: Large monitor with strobing for 60hz (Tekken 7, Sonic Mania, etc)

Post by Jason38 » 18 Feb 2021, 18:33

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
18 Feb 2021, 12:19
TN option with native 60 Hz single strobe
Early used XL2720 series, 27” TN.

IPS option if using emulation: Viewsonic XG270
Are you playing emulation? If so, you can purchase any 120Hz-strobe-capable IPS panel and use the RetroArch software black frame insertion feature to convert 120Hz hardware strobe to 60Hz hardware strobe (the software BFI blacks out every other hardware strobe).

Other than these options, one of the Blur Busters Approved “strobe-any-Hz” models of 27” IPS I will be working on, will likely come out by approximately Christmas 2021 (tentative, unconfirmed). Apologies it is a bit long/indefinite of a wait for additional 60 Hz single strobe options, but it’s almost a miracle I convinced manufacturers to add 60 Hz single strobe — and for some models, it is so early in a typical 12-month monitor engineering cycle.

There is a 24” single-strobe any-Hz IPS model coming out this year.
I own a Viewsonic XG270 and haven't had a lot of luck with the BFI with RetroArch. One time I used the 120 RetroArch option with the 120BFI hardware solution the monitor creates. I had image retention or burn in. It went away after about 2 hours but I didn't mess with it anymore. This past weekend I decided to give it another go and tried the 240BFI option that is in RetroArch and I only played for about 5 mintues and shut if off. I was playing a full screen game but in that area the screen was flashing for about 30 minutes after I turned the BFI off. The screen is normal again but I'm really on the fence about trying anymore BFI.

I have the utility installed for the monitor but is there also a firmware update that accompanies that as I couldn't find much information in the XG270 thread on the specifics. The utility was controlling the monitor so that was working.

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Re: Large monitor with strobing for 60hz (Tekken 7, Sonic Mania, etc)

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 18 Feb 2021, 18:40

Try 180Hz BFI, it's burnin-proof.

Any BFI sequence an odd multiple of emulator Hz 100% solves this!

LCD inversion algorithms are always even-numbered sequences in all monitors ever released, which means an odd-count sequence doesn't create the problematic interaction.

See Why Image Retention / Burn-In Sometimes Occur On LCDs
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

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Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

genbaku
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Joined: 18 Feb 2021, 07:15

Re: Large monitor with strobing for 60hz (Tekken 7, Sonic Mania, etc)

Post by genbaku » 19 Feb 2021, 06:20

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
18 Feb 2021, 12:19
TN option with native 60 Hz single strobe
Early used XL2720 series, 27” TN.

IPS option if using emulation: Viewsonic XG270
Are you playing emulation? If so, you can purchase any 120Hz-strobe-capable IPS panel and use the RetroArch software black frame insertion feature to convert 120Hz hardware strobe to 60Hz hardware strobe (the software BFI blacks out every other hardware strobe).

Other than these options, one of the Blur Busters Approved “strobe-any-Hz” models of 27” IPS I will be working on, will likely come out by approximately Christmas 2021 (tentative, unconfirmed). Apologies it is a bit long/indefinite of a wait for additional 60 Hz single strobe options, but it’s almost a miracle I convinced manufacturers to add 60 Hz single strobe — and for some models, it is so early in a typical 12-month monitor engineering cycle.

There is a 24” single-strobe any-Hz IPS model coming out this year..

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'll wait for the new IPS monitors. It's great that you've been able to convince the manufactures to add 60 Hz single strobe.

Apparently LG initially refused to add 60hz black frame insertion in their OLEDs until the 2018 sets came out, but personally I cannot play any 60hz game without black frame insertion on my OLED.

SaberEdge
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Joined: 10 Mar 2021, 19:14

Re: Large monitor with strobing for 60hz (Tekken 7, Sonic Mania, etc)

Post by SaberEdge » 16 Mar 2021, 13:09

genbaku wrote:
19 Feb 2021, 06:20
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
18 Feb 2021, 12:19
TN option with native 60 Hz single strobe
Early used XL2720 series, 27” TN.

IPS option if using emulation: Viewsonic XG270
Are you playing emulation? If so, you can purchase any 120Hz-strobe-capable IPS panel and use the RetroArch software black frame insertion feature to convert 120Hz hardware strobe to 60Hz hardware strobe (the software BFI blacks out every other hardware strobe).

Other than these options, one of the Blur Busters Approved “strobe-any-Hz” models of 27” IPS I will be working on, will likely come out by approximately Christmas 2021 (tentative, unconfirmed). Apologies it is a bit long/indefinite of a wait for additional 60 Hz single strobe options, but it’s almost a miracle I convinced manufacturers to add 60 Hz single strobe — and for some models, it is so early in a typical 12-month monitor engineering cycle.

There is a 24” single-strobe any-Hz IPS model coming out this year..

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'll wait for the new IPS monitors. It's great that you've been able to convince the manufactures to add 60 Hz single strobe.

Apparently LG initially refused to add 60hz black frame insertion in their OLEDs until the 2018 sets came out, but personally I cannot play any 60hz game without black frame insertion on my OLED.
I love my LG CX OLED, but it's still not ideal for gaming, IMO. Without BFI at "high" the sample and hold motion blur looks terrible. I mean, it's cleaner and clearer than most sample and hold displays I've used, but I just despise motion blur in general. And with BFI at "high" it's pretty good, but for me the input lag is too high, the gamma gets too messed up and causes black crush, and motion blur is more noticeable to me on larger screens. I've realized that I prefer smaller screens for gaming (24 inch to 32 inch range).

It's outrageous to me that monitor manufacturers continue to refuse to put single strobing at 60Hz as a feature in their monitors. It makes a MASSIVE difference. Not just for legacy content, but for 24fps movies, 30fps and 60fps videos, and 30fps and 60fps videogames. In other words, the MAJORITY of content. Even on PC it can be very challenging achieving a solid 100fps or 120fps in current high end games. And I'm just as sensitive to stutter as to motion blur, so I won't play a game without vsync and while keeping my framerate above my refresh rate.


Jason38
Posts: 102
Joined: 24 May 2019, 10:23

Re: Large monitor with strobing for 60hz (Tekken 7, Sonic Mania, etc)

Post by Jason38 » 17 Mar 2021, 23:06

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
18 Feb 2021, 18:40
Try 180Hz BFI, it's burnin-proof.

Any BFI sequence an odd multiple of emulator Hz 100% solves this!

LCD inversion algorithms are always even-numbered sequences in all monitors ever released, which means an odd-count sequence doesn't create the problematic interaction.

See Why Image Retention / Burn-In Sometimes Occur On LCDs
Thanks so much for this answer!! I own two of these XG270's and I love them. I think they are the best gaming monitors on the planet at least right now:) I feel like they have solved so many issues I have had with LED screens in the past.

genbaku
Posts: 4
Joined: 18 Feb 2021, 07:15

Re: Large monitor with strobing for 60hz (Tekken 7, Sonic Mania, etc)

Post by genbaku » 18 Mar 2021, 07:43

SaberEdge wrote:
16 Mar 2021, 13:09
genbaku wrote:
19 Feb 2021, 06:20
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
18 Feb 2021, 12:19
TN option with native 60 Hz single strobe
Early used XL2720 series, 27” TN.

IPS option if using emulation: Viewsonic XG270
Are you playing emulation? If so, you can purchase any 120Hz-strobe-capable IPS panel and use the RetroArch software black frame insertion feature to convert 120Hz hardware strobe to 60Hz hardware strobe (the software BFI blacks out every other hardware strobe).

Other than these options, one of the Blur Busters Approved “strobe-any-Hz” models of 27” IPS I will be working on, will likely come out by approximately Christmas 2021 (tentative, unconfirmed). Apologies it is a bit long/indefinite of a wait for additional 60 Hz single strobe options, but it’s almost a miracle I convinced manufacturers to add 60 Hz single strobe — and for some models, it is so early in a typical 12-month monitor engineering cycle.

There is a 24” single-strobe any-Hz IPS model coming out this year..

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'll wait for the new IPS monitors. It's great that you've been able to convince the manufactures to add 60 Hz single strobe.

Apparently LG initially refused to add 60hz black frame insertion in their OLEDs until the 2018 sets came out, but personally I cannot play any 60hz game without black frame insertion on my OLED.
I love my LG CX OLED, but it's still not ideal for gaming, IMO. Without BFI at "high" the sample and hold motion blur looks terrible. I mean, it's cleaner and clearer than most sample and hold displays I've used, but I just despise motion blur in general. And with BFI at "high" it's pretty good, but for me the input lag is too high, the gamma gets too messed up and causes black crush, and motion blur is more noticeable to me on larger screens. I've realized that I prefer smaller screens for gaming (24 inch to 32 inch range).

It's outrageous to me that monitor manufacturers continue to refuse to put single strobing at 60Hz as a feature in their monitors. It makes a MASSIVE difference. Not just for legacy content, but for 24fps movies, 30fps and 60fps videos, and 30fps and 60fps videogames. In other words, the MAJORITY of content. Even on PC it can be very challenging achieving a solid 100fps or 120fps in current high end games. And I'm just as sensitive to stutter as to motion blur, so I won't play a game without vsync and while keeping my framerate above my refresh rate.
What do you think of 120hz BFI on the CX oled? Is it worth upgrading for this feature? Apparently at 120hz, BFI flicker is much less noticeable.

SaberEdge
Posts: 31
Joined: 10 Mar 2021, 19:14

Re: Large monitor with strobing for 60hz (Tekken 7, Sonic Mania, etc)

Post by SaberEdge » 23 Mar 2021, 10:54

genbaku wrote:
18 Mar 2021, 07:43
SaberEdge wrote:
16 Mar 2021, 13:09
genbaku wrote:
19 Feb 2021, 06:20
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
18 Feb 2021, 12:19
TN option with native 60 Hz single strobe
Early used XL2720 series, 27” TN.

IPS option if using emulation: Viewsonic XG270
Are you playing emulation? If so, you can purchase any 120Hz-strobe-capable IPS panel and use the RetroArch software black frame insertion feature to convert 120Hz hardware strobe to 60Hz hardware strobe (the software BFI blacks out every other hardware strobe).

Other than these options, one of the Blur Busters Approved “strobe-any-Hz” models of 27” IPS I will be working on, will likely come out by approximately Christmas 2021 (tentative, unconfirmed). Apologies it is a bit long/indefinite of a wait for additional 60 Hz single strobe options, but it’s almost a miracle I convinced manufacturers to add 60 Hz single strobe — and for some models, it is so early in a typical 12-month monitor engineering cycle.

There is a 24” single-strobe any-Hz IPS model coming out this year..

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'll wait for the new IPS monitors. It's great that you've been able to convince the manufactures to add 60 Hz single strobe.

Apparently LG initially refused to add 60hz black frame insertion in their OLEDs until the 2018 sets came out, but personally I cannot play any 60hz game without black frame insertion on my OLED.
I love my LG CX OLED, but it's still not ideal for gaming, IMO. Without BFI at "high" the sample and hold motion blur looks terrible. I mean, it's cleaner and clearer than most sample and hold displays I've used, but I just despise motion blur in general. And with BFI at "high" it's pretty good, but for me the input lag is too high, the gamma gets too messed up and causes black crush, and motion blur is more noticeable to me on larger screens. I've realized that I prefer smaller screens for gaming (24 inch to 32 inch range).

It's outrageous to me that monitor manufacturers continue to refuse to put single strobing at 60Hz as a feature in their monitors. It makes a MASSIVE difference. Not just for legacy content, but for 24fps movies, 30fps and 60fps videos, and 30fps and 60fps videogames. In other words, the MAJORITY of content. Even on PC it can be very challenging achieving a solid 100fps or 120fps in current high end games. And I'm just as sensitive to stutter as to motion blur, so I won't play a game without vsync and while keeping my framerate above my refresh rate.
What do you think of 120hz BFI on the CX oled? Is it worth upgrading for this feature? Apparently at 120hz, BFI flicker is much less noticeable.
Honestly, the flicker at 60Hz on "high" doesn't bother me at all while gaming or watching videos/movies. It only becomes noticeable to me if I use my TV for desktop productivity purposes, which I rarely do anyway. And I can always turn off the BFI in those instances.

The CX has the best motion quality of any large screen display I've used. I was being a little negative and overly dramatic in my previous comment. The truth is, I do use my CX for gaming and it's quite good.

It's still important to me to have a good gaming monitor for a couple reasons.

1. My wife and two young children often want to use the CX to watch their shows and movies. It's the best TV in the house and it's in the living room where everyone tends to want to be.

2. While the black frame insertion is quite good on the CX I still notice more blur than on my Sony XBR960 CRT TV and my BenQ XL2411P LCD monitor. This is partially due to the larger screen size and partially due to the longer persistence on the CX.

3. The CX OLED with BFI has noticeably higher input lag than my CRT or LCD monitor with strobing.

4. Even though I'm pretty sure the burn in issue is exaggerated it's sometimes hard for me to just relax and play games with static HUD elements. I love my OLED and would hate for it to get burn in. Being able to switch over to my monitor helps relieve this anxiety.

5. Some games simply don't look good on the larger screen. They have so many graphical issues and playing them on a smaller screen can actually help to hide these issues and result in a more pleasing looking image to me overall.

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