2 lightboost questions

[etegv]

First of all thank you chief for all the info youve provided. I learned a lot from this site

I have two questions if anyone can help me:

Q: How can I reduce input lag with LightBoost?

Use the ToastyX LightBoost Method. Disable the 3D Stereoscopic checkbox in Control Panel. This reduces input lag by disabling all 3D Vision overhead on the computer side, while keeping LightBoost enabled within the monitor.

is there an option for this with ati cards? I googled and NVidia cards keep coming up. I have the r9 290

Also this last part has me really confused:

For optimal benefit, run your games at triple-digit frame rates.
Microstutters become easier to detect if they’re no longer masked by motion blur. To eliminate stutters, run LightBoost at frame rates matching the refresh rate.
(a) Run at 100fps @ 100Hz, or run at 120fps @ 120Hz.

Q: How can I make LightBoost smoother with VSYNC OFF?

If you have a sufficiently powerful GPU, it is best to run at a frame rate massively exceeding your refresh rate. This can reduce the tearing effect significantly. Recommended GPU’s include GeForce GTX 680, GTX 770, GTX 780 or Titan, preferably in SLI if you want to run newer games.

Otherwise, there may be more visible tearing if you run at a frame rate too close to your refresh rate, during VSYNC OFF operation. Also, there can also be harmonic effects (beat-frequency stutters) between frame rate and refresh rate. For example, 119fps @ 120Hz can cause 1 stutter per second.

Therefore, during VSYNC OFF, it is usually best to let the frame rate run far in excess of the refresh rate. This can produce smoother motion (fewer harmonic stutter effects) and less visible tearing. Alternatively, use Adaptive VSYNC as a compromise.

the first quote was from the lightboost HOW TO
ok, so which one is better? im playing bf4 with an i5 4670k/r9 290 and with mantle FPS isnt a problem. I can set a FPS cap for BF4. So what would you guys recommend I set my fps to for 120hz lightboost? Should I set fps to my refresh rate(120fps/120hz) or should I set the fps higher than the refresh rate? And what number exactly? Im really confused on that part lol

thanks again

[flood]

If you're not using vsync, don't cap fps to refresh rate. There will be a very obvious and ugly tear-line that slowly scrolls up or down the screen due the the slight mismatch in fps and refresh rate.

Just leave fps uncapped and see if the tearing bothers you. If it does, afaik capping it generally doesn't help

[etegv]

If you're not using vsync, don't cap fps to refresh rate. There will be a very obvious and ugly tear-line that slowly scrolls up or down the screen due the the slight mismatch in fps and refresh rate.

Just leave fps uncapped and see if the tearing bothers you. If it does, afaik capping it generally doesn't help

yea Im not using v sync

I read that uncapping the FPS can intorduce input lag, so thats why I did it. Also I blieve I read capping helps with the lightboost motion

[Chief Blur Buster]

If you're not using vsync, don't cap fps to refresh rate. There will be a very obvious and ugly tear-line that slowly scrolls up or down the screen due the the slight mismatch in fps and refresh rate.

Use in-game capping to a nearby refresh:

fps_max 117 -- very fast rolling tearline, but may look better than floating VSYNC OFF framerate
fps_max 118 -- fast rolling tearline, but may better than floating VSYNC OFF framerate
fps_max 119 -- slowly rolling tearline, but may look better than floating VSYNC OFF framerate
fps_max 120 -- stationary tearline, often looks worse than floating VSYNC OFF framerate

Now, if you have GPU horsepower, you can cap far away from harmonic frequencies (framerate versus refreshrate beat frequency effects = stutter cycles per second), such as using fps_max 300 or beyond. That will produce pretty smooth motion with LightBoost, that isn't too microstuttery.

VSYNC ON
- As a rule of thumb, it looks smoothest when framerate matches refreshrate

VSYNC OFF
- As a rule of thumb, it looks smoothest (without too much tearing annoyance) when:
-- You cap to a nearby refreshrate; or
-- You let the framerates run really high (far beyond refresh rate

It depends on what you're prioritizing for. Tearing visibility? Stutter visibility? Fluidity? Input lag?

[flood]

yea Im not using v sync

I read that uncapping the FPS can intorduce input lag, so thats why I did it. Also I blieve I read capping helps with the lightboost motion

for any sanely designed game, uncapped fps without vsync will give you the least input lag.
the only case of which I know where capping helps input lag is if you are using gsync.

I just did some quick tests in cs1.6 and actually even a stationary tearline wasn't too distracting at 120hz. (For 60hz displays though, a stationary tearline looks terrible).

[Chief Blur Buster]

I read that uncapping the FPS can intorduce input lag, so thats why I did it.

In the past... With older computers and/or poorly designed game code (multithreaded), it's possible for uncapped framerates to hog the CPU so much that there's no CPU left for reading input reliably (keyboard / mouse), creating input lag. But this isn't the situation anymore for the vast majority of cases.

Also I blieve I read capping helps with the lightboost motion

Yes, it most certainly does. But make sure you use game-engine-based internal capping (e.g. fps_max), not external capping (e.g. VSYNC ON, drivers, NVInspector) because any form of external frame rate capping adds input lag.

[etegv]

If you're not using vsync, don't cap fps to refresh rate. There will be a very obvious and ugly tear-line that slowly scrolls up or down the screen due the the slight mismatch in fps and refresh rate.

Use in-game capping to a nearby refresh:

fps_max 117 -- very fast rolling tearline, but may look better than floating VSYNC OFF framerate
fps_max 118 -- fast rolling tearline, but may better than floating VSYNC OFF framerate
fps_max 119 -- slowly rolling tearline, but may look better than floating VSYNC OFF framerate
fps_max 120 -- stationary tearline, often looks worse than floating VSYNC OFF framerate

Now, if you have GPU horsepower, you can cap far away from harmonic frequencies (framerate versus refreshrate beat frequency effects = stutter cycles per second), such as using fps_max 300 or beyond. That will produce pretty smooth motion with LightBoost, that isn't too microstuttery.

VSYNC ON
- As a rule of thumb, it looks smoothest when framerate matches refreshrate

VSYNC OFF
- As a rule of thumb, it looks smoothest (without too much tearing annoyance) when:
-- You cap to a nearby refreshrate; or
-- You let the framerates run really high (far beyond refresh rate

It depends on what you're prioritizing for. Tearing visibility? Stutter visibility? Fluidity? Input lag?

Lol i didnt know I had that many options. What I am prioritizing first is input lag. I really dont notice tearing/stutter too much, but any sort of lag drives me insane lol. What would be the best for input lag? There is no way I can do 300 fps, but something like 160 fps is doable. Do you think I should try 160 fps @ 120 hz?

[etegv]

yea Im not using v sync

I read that uncapping the FPS can intorduce input lag, so thats why I did it. Also I blieve I read capping helps with the lightboost motion

for any sanely designed game, uncapped fps without vsync will give you the least input lag.
the only case of which I know where capping helps input lag is if you are using gsync.

I just did some quick tests in cs1.6 and actually even a stationary tearline wasn't too distracting at 120hz. (For 60hz displays though, a stationary tearline looks terrible).

So you guys are sure about this right? B/c I read that an FPS to like 70 from 120 can introduce Lag. In BF4 the FPS will go up and down during areas with a lot going on. Like for me it can be at 120 and then go down to like 70, etc. I read that can cause the lag

Isnt that why gsycn causes less input lag? my understanding was there is a delay caused when theres a sudden jump in framerate, so you would want something constant like capping fps or getting sync to get the least amount of lag. Please chief need help on thi

I read that uncapping the FPS can intorduce input lag, so thats why I did it.

In the past... With older computers and/or poorly designed game code (multithreaded), it's possible for uncapped framerates to hog the CPU so much that there's no CPU left for reading input reliably (keyboard / mouse), creating input lag. But this isn't the situation anymore for the vast majority of cases.

Also I blieve I read capping helps with the lightboost motion

Yes, it most certainly does. But make sure you use game-engine-based internal capping (e.g. fps_max), not external capping (e.g. VSYNC ON, drivers, NVInspector) because any form of external frame rate capping adds input lag.

In BF4 the FPS goes up and down all the time if I leave it uncapped. Itll will 70 fps second, then 80, then 110, etc. I read that causes lag (when frames go up and down)

Yes I have been using the Battlefield 4 FPS command which is gametime.maxvariable XXX (something like that). What should I set FPS to if Input lag is my main concern? With mantle I can hit 150, 160, maybe 170.

also Chief is there a way to disable 3d stereoscopic mode for ATI cards?



thanks you guys so much for the replies

[Chief Blur Buster]

So you guys are sure about this right? B/c I read that an FPS to like 70 from 120 can introduce Lag.

There is a GPU component to the input lag chain. See AnandTech's older article "Exploring Input Lag Inside And Out"


At 30fps, the GPU takes 33ms to render a frame. (1/30sec = 33ms)

____________ versus _________________


At 100fps, the GPU takes 10ms to render a frame. (1/100sec = 10ms)

These are simplistic graphs, but they illustrate that multiple things affect the input lag chain.

So in general, the higher the framerate, the better for input lag. However, a massively fluctuating framerate sometimes throws off aiming because the input lag is varying (varying GPU load) with a varying framerate. This is one of the reasons some people like to fix the framerate in many competitive FPS shooters, to allow you to train for a predictable, stable, constant input lag.

But once VSYNC is uncapped (e.g. 300fps and beyond), it really doesn't matter much. On the other hand, if you vary from 50fps to 200fps, that could produce a fluctuating GPU-portion input lag variance of 5ms thru 20ms. This can throw off aiming. Now, BF4 is so laggy that you really don't want to cap so low anyway. Higher framerates look better so you don't always want to cap. But you've got to choose a tradeoff between the GPU-portion input lag variance of a varying framerate, versus a lower framerate that may produce a slightly higher (but more consistent and trainable input lag). There is really few ways to fix input lag in laggy engines such as BF4 (which has an inordinate amount of CPU time in the chain, and also GPU). You can only reduce some parts of the chain, but not the whole part.

Running at hundreds frames per second, this becomes mostly irrelevant, though.

Yes I have been using the Battlefield 4 FPS command which is gametime.maxvariable XXX (something like that). What should I set FPS to if Input lag is my main concern? With mantle I can hit 150, 160, maybe 170.

Uncapping (on modern systems) usually produces the lowest lag, but beyond a certain point, it stops being noticeable to most people (e.g. going to 200fps, 300fps, 400fps). Capping to the refresh rate (e.g. fps_max 143 at 144Hz) can produce smoother motion with fewer stutters, if it is visually preferable, but is very game dependant.

The other problem is BF4 has high lag in other parts of its chain, which can't be helped with these tweaks...