Black Frame Insertion ReShade?

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
Supermodel_Evelynn
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Re: Black Frame Insertion ReShade?

Post by Supermodel_Evelynn » 17 Jan 2024, 12:28

Ozzuneoj wrote:
30 Aug 2021, 10:16
I could be wrong here, but software based BFI won't work very well on a standard LCD based panel because you're limited by the response time of the pixels to transition between each frame and solid black. In fact, slower screens will probably be a dark mess without ever even achieving a full black frame. Strobing works because the display can switch the backlight off completely and then turn it on quickly at the right time (with the right brightness) to break up the blurring effect on sample and hold displays. The pixels themselves don't turn black, because that is a much much slower transition.

OLED panels may do better in this way, but I'm sure it's still nowhere near what you'd see with proper hardware strobing (even on a backlit LCD panel).
maybe you were wrong because BFI software made Street Fighter 6 for me look insanely good

I currently use the BFI desktop software from github on my Gigabyte M27Q P and it looks better than my old Viewsonic XG2431 with pureXP which had one of the best strobing feature.

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Re: Black Frame Insertion ReShade?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 18 Jan 2024, 07:36

Supermodel_Evelynn wrote:
17 Jan 2024, 12:28
Ozzuneoj wrote:
30 Aug 2021, 10:16
I could be wrong here, but software based BFI won't work very well on a standard LCD based panel because you're limited by the response time of the pixels to transition between each frame and solid black. In fact, slower screens will probably be a dark mess without ever even achieving a full black frame. Strobing works because the display can switch the backlight off completely and then turn it on quickly at the right time (with the right brightness) to break up the blurring effect on sample and hold displays. The pixels themselves don't turn black, because that is a much much slower transition.

OLED panels may do better in this way, but I'm sure it's still nowhere near what you'd see with proper hardware strobing (even on a backlit LCD panel).
maybe you were wrong because BFI software made Street Fighter 6 for me look insanely good

I currently use the BFI desktop software from github on my Gigabyte M27Q P and it looks better than my old Viewsonic XG2431 with pureXP which had one of the best strobing feature.
Both BFI and PureXP has pros/cons.
Just to caveat for other readers, because many of my readers say BFI doesn't reduce enough blur for them.

BFI = brighter (if you need brighter, sufficient for low-resolution).
Strobing = clearer (if you need fast high-resolution motion)

BenQ has DyAc, which has brighter strobing, if you need something brighter than PureXP while having less motion blur than BFI.

On OLED, BFI is fantastic, because software BFI is the same quality as hardware BFI (usually), but you're still throttled to no more than refreshtime on MPRT. So 4ms MPRT, which will mean that if you have scrolling that is faster than 8 pixeljump per frame, you will see noticeable display motion blur when eye-tracking-during-scroll.

Right Tool For Right Job. BFI is better for some things, and strobing (ULMB/PureXP/ELMB/VRB/etc) is good for other things. We've got snobs here who can easily tell apart 50% pulse duty cycle and 10% pulse duty cycle.

Assuming you get framerate=Hz (240fps 240Hz), you get:
PureXP Ultra = 10% duty cycle (1/10th the blur of 240fps 240Hz)
PureXP Extreme = 20% duty cycle (2/10th the blur of 240fps 240Hz)
PureXP Normal = 30% duty cycle (3/10th the blur of 240fps 240Hz)
PureXP Light = 40% duty cycle (4/10th the blur of 240fps 240Hz)
Ordinary BFI = 50% duty cycle

Now, if you're playing lower frame rates (e.g. 60fps-120fps), BFI looks better (brighter, less flicker) and also partially because it's a rolling flicker. Not all pixels of a display refresh at the same time (see high speed videos of display refresh cycles).
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Supermodel_Evelynn
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Re: Black Frame Insertion ReShade?

Post by Supermodel_Evelynn » 18 Jan 2024, 11:49

Thats interesting so you are indeed saying I should go with a OLED Monitor for street fighter since its a slow paced 60 FPS game well I should probably go with a TV since OLED monitors doesn't support BFI

All of the OLED TVs for example seem to come with 60hz BFI and since OLED doesn't have backlight bleed or contrast issues I get 100nits BFI on OLED looks pretty bright.

PS: The coolest tech I ever saw for fighting games or those locked to 60 FPS was Interpolation like those LG Tru Motion feature it would make a 60 FPS fighting game run at 120 FPS and take all the advantages of 120 hz. But I have never heard of anyone using this tech for gaming etc unless its those Nvidia Frame Generation that's done on the GPU side but Frame Generation doesn't help games locked to 60 FPS due to game logic.

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Re: Black Frame Insertion ReShade?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 18 Jan 2024, 21:13

Street Fighter doesn't scroll fast, so you can make do with 50% reduction in MPRT, e.g. 8ms MPRT. That remains reasonably clear for 60Hz motionspeeds up to 4 pixels per frame on OLEDs.

The neat thing is that maximum BFI allows 60Hz to reach the motion clarity of max Hz.
For example:
Software BFI+120Hz = 60/120ths motion blur ~= 50% blur reduction
Software BFI+240Hz = 60/240ths motion blur ~= 75% blur reduction
Software BFI+480Hz = 60/480ths motion blur ~= 83% blur reduction

As a rule of thumb, frame-level BFI (no sub-refresh BFI) is motion clear up to (2xHz) pixels per second.

60Hz = clear at up to 120 pixels/sec on OLED
60fps on max software BFI at 120Hz OLED = clear at up to 240 pixels/sec
60fps on max software BFI at 240Hz OLED = clear at up to 480 pixels/sec
60fps on max software BFI at 360Hz OLED = clear at up to 720 pixels/sec
60fps on max software BFI at 480Hz OLED = clear at up to 960 pixels/sec

This is the same as:
120fps 120Hz OLED = clear at up to 240 pixels/sec
240fps 240Hz OLED = clear at up to 480 pixels/sec
360fps 360Hz OLED = clear at up to 720 pixels/sec
480fps 480Hz OLED = clear at up to 960 pixels/sec

LCDs will start falling apart on this curve when you're above about ~60-240Hz (ish), depending on LCD model and LCD performance. OLED keeps improving almost perfectly linearly thanks to GtG=nearly 0.

This applies to the scaled pixels, so this is less important for lower retro resolutions (big pixels), than for high-resolution material.

This is epitomized that max BFI at lower frame rates, via software BFI means, can only reduce motion blur to match the match the motion clarity of the maximum framerate=Hz, e.g. see TestUFO Variable Persistence BFI viewed on 120-240Hz. You can see that the bottom two UFOs has identical motion blur when you view this test on an OLED of 120Hz or up. Now change the speed of the UFOs, then motion blur can come back when you're faster than the thresholds above. 960 pixels/sec has noticeable motion blur on 120Hz OLEDs, for example.

That's why 60fps via BFI on 120Hz+ is good enough for most low-resolution retro material (slower than a running Super Mario, slower than Sonic Hedgehog run). But starts to fail with higher resolutions such as DOTA2 map panning (lots more blur due to higher resolution of panning a DOTA2 map) since higher resolutions = more pixels of motion blur = Hz limitations more noticeable.

Sub-refresh BFI or strobing (e.g. flashing a refresh cycle briefer than a refresh cycle) can reduce more motion blur, and a few OLEDs sometimes do it (e.g. LG CX model, or Oculus Rift OLED), but not all OLED models can do sub-refresh BFI. So these are good rules of thumbs for BFI performance.
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Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

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