[ELMB] Question about frequency range, and which monitor for 60hz single strobe ?

Ask about motion blur reduction in gaming monitors. Includes ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), NVIDIA LightBoost, ASUS ELMB, BenQ/Zowie DyAc, Turbo240, ToastyX Strobelight, etc.
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Hellstyx
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Joined: 25 Jul 2021, 16:33

[ELMB] Question about frequency range, and which monitor for 60hz single strobe ?

Post by Hellstyx » 31 Aug 2021, 16:22

Hello,

I'm a bit confused about ELMB and ELMB sync.

Seems that ELMB can only be used at specific fixed frequencies.
Does ELMB sync work for the whole frequency range of a monitor ? ie 60 to 144hz ?

For example, my game is running at 72 fps with ELMB sync enable, I should get a refresh rate at 72hz and a backlight strobing at 72 hz, correct ? Same for any frequency , seamlessly.

In addition, I saw the list of the available monitors which are VRR strobe compatible. Is there any 60hz single strobe VRR capable monitor ? I suppose EVE monitors should do the job but not sure it has been confirmed.

Thank you !

RonsonPL
Posts: 122
Joined: 26 Aug 2014, 07:12

Re: [ELMB] Question about frequency range, and which monitor for 60hz single strobe ?

Post by RonsonPL » 06 Sep 2021, 07:38

Since you're not getting any real answers yet, I'll add this:

If you meant ULMB, a part of G-sync stuff, then it's sadly 100-120, I think. Maybe 85 on some monitors, I'm not sure, but it's definitely not custom, so no 72Hz for you

- maybe consider buying a cheap used XL2411Z.

These have no VRR, have a rather typical cheap TN LCD panel, have no HDMI or DisplayPort allowing for 120Hz singal (DVI port handles that), are just 24" 1080p, but the prices of these monitors are seriously insanely low on used parts markets. Just bought one for my brother for 120€ and 150€ offers are not uncommon.
It has VESA mount, so maybe you can arrange some method to use them both without too much effort.
Especially since the "Blurblusters blessed" are starting to show up this year and cheap 4K and OLED monitors in 2022. I think this would be wise to wait if you buy a monitor only once per 5 years, for example. I'd get something with Blurbuster's best certificate or just save up and get an OLED (TV available now, monitors in 2022)


Don't buy anything with annoying flaws in terms of motion, you will only regret it later on. VRR is overrated anyway. You are better off getting a fast CPU + low latency memory, adjusting settings, and using v-sync for proper strobe mode. And of course, if you buy a monitor which can handle any range with strobing (praise the Chief for his crusade in this regard : )), you can simply lock your framerate to 80, 90 or 100Hz, whichever is sustainable in the game you play.

edit: and also, sad news: If you play emulators and want 50 and 60Hz stobed modes, I'm sad to bring you the bad news: you'll need a CRT or accept the need of moving away by quite a lot. 50Hz strobe on LCD works and motion clarity is same as on CRTs I've been using, but playing games on it is just not possible in my case. The eyes hurt too much at 50. I'd say 60Hz strobed LCD gives you a flicker feeling like 50Hz CRT. Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but due to the nature of CRT and LCD backlight, it clearly is easier on the eyes on CRT, so if you're a big fan of PAL game emulators (50Hz) you'd better search for an usable CRT while you still can. It's harder and harder to get one nowadays, as the production stopped nearly 20 years ago

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Re: [ELMB] Question about frequency range, and which monitor for 60hz single strobe ?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 06 Sep 2021, 15:16

Be noted that ELMB Sync has issues:
https://www.aperturegrille.com/reviews/ASUSVG27AQ/

I am working on VRR strobing for two vendors at the moment, though it will not be out till 2022. The goal is that I will have configurable VRR strobe ranges editable via Strobe Utility, that optionally can be configured to include retro-friendly single-strobe ranges (which is a mandatory criteria of Blur Busters Approved 2.0). There is a flicker-versus-artifacts tradeoff with VRR strobing, and implementations of variable-rate strobing varies a lot between vendors.
RonsonPL wrote:
06 Sep 2021, 07:38
edit: and also, sad news: If you play emulators and want 50 and 60Hz stobed modes, I'm sad to bring you the bad news: you'll need a CRT or accept the need of moving away by quite a lot. 50Hz strobe on LCD works and motion clarity is same as on CRTs I've been using, but playing games on it is just not possible in my case. The eyes hurt too much at 50. I'd say 60Hz strobed LCD gives you a flicker feeling like 50Hz CRT. Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but due to the nature of CRT and LCD backlight, it clearly is easier on the eyes on CRT, so if you're a big fan of PAL game emulators (50Hz) you'd better search for an usable CRT while you still can. It's harder and harder to get one nowadays, as the production stopped nearly 20 years ago
I am hoping to eventually incubate my electron gun emulation idea (e.g. software based rolling scan BFI) in a future emulator -- for example BFIv3 idea at https://github.com/libretro/RetroArch/issues/10757

Basically, using brute-force refresh rate (240Hz, 360Hz, 480Hz, 1000Hz) to emulate the electron gun of a CRT in fine granularity increments:
## Interesting Equivalence: Conceptual Emulation of a High Speed Video of a CRT Tube

One conceptual way to more easily understand this github item:

A high speed video of a CRT tube. You see a rolling bar in those, with blurry edges. This is seen in many YouTube -- you see phosphor trailing behind.

**Did you know that playback of a 1000fps high-speed video of a CRT tube -- in real time onto a true 1000Hz display -- allows a 1000Hz display to perceptually emulate the original CRT?**

The "BFIv3" or "Temporal HLSL" concept, aims to emulate that behavior in software. For best emulation perfection requires retina resolution (spatial HLSL filter) + retina refresh rate (temporal HLSL) + retina HDR (to keep it beam-emulation bright).

A display that combines all of this will take some time to arrive, but -- this encompasses the venn diagram of capturing the look-feel of a CRT tube (at flat tubes).

(plus a slight amount of edge-alphablending for overlaps to prevent tearing artifacts from appearing, especially for the sharp bottom edge of the rolling-scan bar as seen in high speed videos.)
I may have a BountySource (worth 4 figures) for the incubation of such a project, please send me a PM if there is a software developer interested in potentially incubating an electron beam emulator (even if standalone).
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

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