QD-OLED monitor is out. Any info about strobing capabilities?

High Hz on OLED produce excellent strobeless motion blur reduction with fast GtG pixel response. It is easier to tell apart 60Hz vs 120Hz vs 240Hz on OLED than LCD, and more visible to mainstream. Includes WOLED and QD-OLED displays.
RonsonPL
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QD-OLED monitor is out. Any info about strobing capabilities?

Post by RonsonPL » 27 Mar 2022, 13:37

Hey
AW3423DW is finally getting some reviews


I've clicked through a few reviews on Youtube. Didn't find any which would even mention the strobe feature.
I hope there is one implemented, as it would be absolutely ridiculous to not use OLEDs advantages, but as history have shown, motion related decissions are often made by ignorant people.



The first QD-OLED monitor is this
phpBB [video]



I expect Hardware Unboxed to test it with strobe topic mentioned but they didn't post a review so far.

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jorimt
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Re: QD-OLED monitor is out. Any info about strobing capabilities?

Post by jorimt » 27 Mar 2022, 14:49

RonsonPL wrote:
27 Mar 2022, 13:37
The AW3423DW doesn't feature strobing.

If you wait a couple more OLED monitor generations, there are bound to be a greater variety in sizes and features available; early days.
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Re: QD-OLED monitor is out. Any info about strobing capabilities?

Post by RonsonPL » 27 Mar 2022, 14:53

Thank you for the information.

So yeah, "best gaming monitor ever" my ass :(

Such a shame.


edit: Yeah, but I am curious about the technology in general. Monitors, TVs, HMDs. I am curious if it's better than OLED or better than LCDs. If it's faster than LCDs and brighter than OLEDs, it may be a cool tech. But it also may be just as bad as LCDs or just as dim as OLEDs are, so I need info ASAP ;)
5ms time from black to grey means this tech is absolutely useless for 480 or 1000Hz strobe-less modes.

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jorimt
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Re: QD-OLED monitor is out. Any info about strobing capabilities?

Post by jorimt » 27 Mar 2022, 16:22

RonsonPL wrote:
27 Mar 2022, 14:53
I am curious if it's better than OLED or better than LCDs. If it's faster than LCDs and brighter than OLEDs, it may be a cool tech. But it also may be just as bad as LCDs or just as dim as OLEDs are, so I need info ASAP ;)
5ms time from black to grey means this tech is absolutely useless for 480 or 1000Hz strobe-less modes.
Are you talking about QD-OLED? Because it's the same as OLED, just with panel revisions that allow purer color, higher brightness, and better viewing angles.

HDTVTest also recently did a video on the AW3423DW:
phpBB [video]


While strobing is great, and it should always be featured where possible, it's not mandatory. There are many gamers, including myself, that are okay with non-strobed high refresh monitors.

That said, I'm not personally interested in the AW3423DW either, mainly due to the aspect ratio and curve, image retention risk with prolonged desktop use, and the fact that it still has VRR gamma flicker (that, and I already have an LG CX for OLED gaming, strobing included).
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Re: QD-OLED monitor is out. Any info about strobing capabilities?

Post by RonsonPL » 27 Mar 2022, 17:06

jorimt wrote:
27 Mar 2022, 16:22

While strobing is great, and it should always be featured where possible, it's not mandatory. There are many gamers, including myself, that are okay with non-strobed high refresh monitors.
Since this thread is basically finished, I will allow myself to go off-topic as you've touched the phenomenon which fascinates me since a long time.

It is mandatory to me. Absolutely mandatory. And I would argue that my stance on this would be more common if people learned the psychology side of this. It really is a tricky thing. In short: even if you think you are, you are NOT aware of what you're losing. To be able to express any opinion about this, you would need to express it only within a minute from comparing two displays at the same time. Even if you compared it for hours, when a day passes, you are getting tricked. It's a complicated topic which have surprised me many times. Even years since I started pointing this "trap" to others and even when I considered myself to be knowledgable and aware. But we are all human and we are prone to the tricks our brains are playing on us.
I even started to think some games are just not that bad without it, when played on a fast TN LCD panel at 120fps. Maybe this game just doesn't lose that much.
Then I returned to a strobed display and...
just like a thousand times before, there was "wow, the difference is actually big, I immediately feel the game impressions are different".

After focusing on this topic for like 20 years now, after choosing small CRT monitors in the pre-strobing era, over much bigger and brighter LCD displays, after choosing 19" CRT monitor over a 120" projector which initially wowed me in the same game, I've learned to never trust myself when I get the feeling that non-strobed display may be OK for gaming.
No.
You just don't have the data "why" you have more fun. It's not like just comparing the static image quality factors like how clear the image is, how colorful, how big the contrast is, how big the screen size is. Those have no "mind tricks", no traps you can fall into.
But motion...
that's a whole different story.

The hard part is, that there is absolutely no way of convincing anyone about this. People are quick to assume "Well, I am just a different type of gamer, maybe I just don't mind, maybe it's not as important to me, maybe the games | play are different, maybe I am able to enjoy the games more even if the motion is not clear" and so on and so on.
But if a bunch of scientists developed a proper experiment to put people through to make them aware (specific set of games, gameplay, info, display comparisons, self-analytics etc.) I am honestly pretty sure the numbers of people who consider clear motion in games as mandatory, would change from 1% to at least 50%, to be on the safe side. I was tempted to write 90% here, as this is what I actually think, but at 50% I can be sure. 90% is risky, as I may lack some biology related knowledge to know how and why people differ between each other.

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Re: QD-OLED monitor is out. Any info about strobing capabilities?

Post by jorimt » 27 Mar 2022, 18:10

RonsonPL wrote:
27 Mar 2022, 17:06
I may lack some biology related knowledge to know how and why people differ between each other.
Don't get me wrong, I fully understand and appreciate the benefits of strobing, it's simply that I'm one of those players that fix my eyes at the center of the screen and primarily use my peripheral vision to track motion, whereas strobing is typically more beneficial for players that eye-track. You're probably one of the latter.
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Re: QD-OLED monitor is out. Any info about strobing capabilities?

Post by jnashville » 27 Mar 2022, 20:02

jorimt wrote:
27 Mar 2022, 18:10
RonsonPL wrote:
27 Mar 2022, 17:06
I may lack some biology related knowledge to know how and why people differ between each other.
Don't get me wrong, I fully understand and appreciate the benefits of strobing, it's simply that I'm one of those players that fix my eyes at the center of the screen and primarily use my peripheral vision to track motion, whereas strobing is typically more beneficial for players that eye-track. You're probably one of the latter.
kinda agree.

I had a strobing monitor in the likes of the benq XL2546 using DYAC.

I am now using an ultrawide coming from a 240hz BenQ monitor to a huawei mateview GT 34 inch 165hz monitor without strobing.

I play csgo competitively last time and now i use my desktop mainly for work and casual gaming. I still play well on my ultrawide though i can notice the drop in refresh rate, but the loss of strobing effect didnt alter my gameplay at all.

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Re: QD-OLED monitor is out. Any info about strobing capabilities?

Post by RonsonPL » 28 Mar 2022, 06:22

jnashville wrote:
27 Mar 2022, 20:02


I play csgo competitively last time and now i use my desktop mainly for work and casual gaming. I still play well on my ultrawide though i can notice the drop in refresh rate, but the loss of strobing effect didnt alter my gameplay at all.
Strobing has very little to do with competitiveness in CSGO.
In Battlefield when you fly a helicopter - it sure does as you can easily spot the guys with AA rocket launchers while it's often impossible without strobing.

But in CSGO? Let's start from the fact the aiming feels jerky and off below 250fps. It feels better at 400fps than it feels at 250. Strobing usually is working well only at lower refreshrates like 120Hz. That alone means a lot. It will rather negatively impact your score if you turn from 400fps v-sync off to anything strobed v-sync ON, as it will add latency. And at v-sync off, the difference is not as big as the main reason to use strobing is to achieve the ability to see moving objects clearly and v-sync off means they will be teared anyway.

Then, there is the mouse USB polling issue. Are you using 8000Hz mouse at 8000Hz? Cause if not, there is no way to benefit from strobing in CSGO at all.

Another thing,
When you are playing well, chances are you are not tracking your target while it's moving at all. Your brain prepares the data for the movement, it sends the commands and then your arm moves, aims and shoots. At slower movement like keeping an enemy in the eyesight while he's moving, strobing is not important either as you can still see enough without strobing if the movement is slow enough, especially on high refreshrates monitors, but let's be real - nobody who knows this forum plays anything competetive at 60Hz.

Lastly, there is a difference in play style which you may notice between players who started on CRT monitors and others. But this may not at all be visible on higher skill level.
Basically, for example, I tend to sweep the camera often, while most of the other gamers move their mouse like chickens move their heads. Quick move. Stop. Quick move. Stop.
It's natural to develop this camera/aim style when you can't see anything in fast motion. It doesn't surprise me. But it surprises me that it's so hard to change this after the gamer bought a display capable of displaying fast motion.

In short: Remember:
1. Strobing cannot be judged in relation to how well you play infantry FPS shooting games like CoD, CSGO etc.
2. The divide between hardcore gaming and casual gaming is a myth if someone applies it to strobing. Casual games and casual gamers may benefit even more than hardcore gamers in hardcore games. The games and gamer type are irrelevant. The only important thing is what happens on the screen and what gives you the joy.


Regarding the second point here.
After observing a lot through over 2 decades, I can assure you that there are things people are not instantly aware of. You can give a strobed display to a gamer for a 10 minute test and tell him if it makes a difference and he/she may tell you it doesn't while it does, just because the person doesn't know what to look at (not in terms of looking at monitor but in terms of what gives the joy from gaming, when, how etc.) Again. Psychology. It's not a thing I can explain in a few pages of text. I'd need a "live" presentantion with examples, displays and games to look at. But in short: for me, there are whole game genres and gameplay types which just don't give me any fun without strobing.


- Side-scrolled games where you move a lot and not by slow walking.

- scrolling shooters of course, like R-Type, but even Battlefield games - you simply see more.

-All the arcade games which simply lose the arcade magic without strobing.


- The fighting games with good marial arts animations - again, you can enjoy those games more (unless you cannot turn the motion blur off in the game, of course)

- The top down racers (Micro Machines-alike)

- The quad racers where the speed is not that great, but there is a lot of slow turns: Pure is an excellent example and it is the game I menioned earlier when bringing up my example of projector 120" vs. 19" CRT screen. The game was simply losing the pace each time I turned. It The sense of speed was interrupted. The fun and enjoyment hugely affected, basically gone. But on strobed display, turning was still fun, and passsing tree branches from close distance gave an amazing sense of speed. Not present on non-strobed display even if the display had 120".

- future racers (just launch Redout, disable the stupid postprocess filters so the game regains colors and contrast, and give it a go at 120fps strobed and then non strobed, switch back and forth. You won't see the difference. But you will feel it. You will feel the game gives you way more fun. Unless you happen to have a bad lap on strobed and good lap on nonstrobed - then you may decide the overall fun level is not changed. See? Another place where psychology interferes. :D

- Open world games with visually pleasing views to admire (and here, again, it matters how you've learned to play, cause I tend to look around even while moving forward while my friend who started gaming in LCD era, never does that, even when I sat him at strobed display, so he'd say the difference is not there). I even saw reviews from experienced gaming journalists who claimed they love the game genre they are reviewing, and said the game is boring. But I played the game on strobed display before seeing the review and this would never crossed my mind. Why? Cause I enjoyed looking for the stuff, collecting secrets and figuring out the ways to reach certain places. I did it all while looking around with my camera a lot. I wouldn't be doing this if I had to stop the camera each time I wanted to see anything. This is again complicated in itself, as I am not only talking about the inability to spot a secret but also about how immersed in the world you get when you swing the camera all the time. The more you see, the more you can enjoy the virtual world you travel through, and the more data your brain has to recreate the world in your head. I am simply more aware what's where and how it looks. This part may be less important for people who have good photograpic memory, are visual artists etc. as their brain will remember more for longer time, but for me, the difference is huge. To the point I played a Ratchet&Clank ToD game on PS3 on 24" LCD and played it through with an opinion the game series dropped the ball and while PS2 games were fun, this one is 5/10 at best. But 2 days later I was messing around with VGA box for PS3, which enabled real 720p 60fps progressive output in CRT compatible signal. I hooked it up to my CRT monitor and launched the game to play a bit. Just to test it. But something surprising have happened. I forgot I am testing. I started having way too much fun to turn it off. I didn't turn the console off until I almost finished the game the second time and next day I finished it and played through the DLC. This time I realized I am having more fun and I would adjust my game score for this title from 5/10 to strong 8/10. And the only difference was strobing display. The display which had smaller viewing area, the display which had way worse colors and contrast as it was an old crappy CRT. And yet...
yeah
This accidental experiment was conducted many years since I started considering myself a knowledgable person in terms of motion in games. This was not the first and not the last surprise.


Even explosions in many games are way more enjoyable if I can see all the particles flying around.

There is more, but I'm writing a forum post, not a book, so I'll stop here :D

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Re: QD-OLED monitor is out. Any info about strobing capabilities?

Post by thatoneguy » 28 Mar 2022, 14:38

Unfortunately we won't see displays with low MPRT become widespread globally for the next 10-15 years when MicroLED comes out/becomes affordable for consumers.
OLED simply isn't bright enough. They might reach 2000 nits soon which would be good enough for strobing SDR 60hz games at 1ms MPRT but I doubt it will reach any higher than that so forget about playing HDR games with good motion and forget about playing emulated retro games with shaders for a while.

Bishi
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Re: QD-OLED monitor is out. Any info about strobing capabilities?

Post by Bishi » 18 Apr 2022, 05:18

I also have found that I can't live without strobing after trying many of the new IPS, VA and even TN panels, I always end up returning them and going back to my trusty Benq XL2730Z which is a good 7 years old now. That being said, I am really excited about OLED displays in general coming to the gaming market so I have ordered one of these Alienware screens so I can see it in person.

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