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Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support

Talk about NVIDIA G-SYNC, a variable refresh rate (VRR) technology. G-SYNC eliminates stutters, tearing, and reduces input lag. List of G-SYNC Monitors.

Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support

Postby jorimt » 08 Nov 2019, 00:58

EeK wrote:@jorimt, thank you very much for taking the time to answer all of my questions. You've been incredibly helpful and patient, which I really appreciate. I've learned a lot from your articles and, now, even more from your posts.

Good to hear, any time @EeK ;)

EeK wrote:P.S.: I'll be trying out that G-SYNC Indicator option! Had never noticed it until you pointed it out.

Oh, and by the way, this may end up being setup specific (I'm using Vulkan; it may not be occurring with DX12), and might ultimately be patched out, but I just installed RDR2 (I've been following the ResetEra performance thread, and I regularly follow the AVS Forum OLED thread, so I see you own it as well), and G-SYNC (I have a 144Hz monitor containing a module, using DisplayPort) is only working for me if I set in-game V-SYNC to "On."

Fullscreen optimizations enabled/disabled have no effect on this with in-game "Fullscreen" mode. I've also verified "Fullscreen" is not borderless/windowed.

Just thought it was worth a mention in this regard, and will be interesting to know if you're G-SYNC indicator shows with in-game V-SYNC "Off" (or not). Also it's a bit ironic, seeing as we've been discussing in-game vs. NVCP V-SYNC.

I will stress though, this occurrence is incredibly rare; it's the first time I've seen it happen since I can remember (and I own a lot of games).

EDIT: It was Vulkan. With DX12, whether the in-game V-SYNC option is on or off, or NVCP V-SYNC is on or off, G-SYNC functions regardless.
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Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support

Postby jorimt » 08 Nov 2019, 01:02

By the way @everyone, I've added a brief "Low Latency Mode" configuration section to my optimal G-SYNC settings to reflect the latest findings:
https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync ... ttings/14/
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Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support

Postby a22o2 » 08 Nov 2019, 02:12

jorimt wrote:
a22o2 wrote:If I am running higher than 1080p, does that mean it will put "strain" on my gpu for all games ran at 1440p?

A higher resolution will indeed always put more strain on your GPU. Use RTSS to monitor your GPU usage percentage.

Ideally, you want it to be below 99% usage for input lag purposes, but preventing V-SYNC input lag with an FPS limit below the refresh rate with G-SYNC (as you already have set), will net you the most input lag reduction (typically 2 or 3, but sometimes up to 6 frames in extreme instances) out of anything else you can do on the system/display side (Low Latency Mode, both "On" and "Ultra" will, at best, usually net you an additional 1 frame of input lag reduction in uncapped/GPU-bound situations).

a22o2 wrote:Right now I am using: 1440p in game, RTSS set to 160 (165hz monitor), NVCP: gsync on, vsync on, NULL set to ON instead of Ultra. Vsync off in game. Do you recommend these settings or anything different? Thank you!

edit: reading another member's post is giving me conflicting answers. In my specific case, null should be on or off?

Sound right to me, including NULL "On"...except for this game; it runs on DX12, and DX12/Vulkan currently handle the pre-rendered frames queue at the engine level, and thus don't support external setting's manipulation of the queue size.

No harm in leaving it on though, as it won't have an affect anyway in this case.


Thank you so much for the info! Random question, do you use GFE? Would your recommendations be for it or against it? I am currently not using it and just wondering if this is wise or not.
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Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support

Postby jorimt » 08 Nov 2019, 09:42

I don't use GFE or have it installed, no. Nothing against it, just don't need it myself.

If you require/want ShadowPlay, Ansel, Freestyle game filters, Shield streaming, new driver notifications, or automatic game settings configuration, then yeah. If not, then there's definitely no harm (or performance penalty/reduction) in not having it installed.
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Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support

Postby jorimt » 08 Nov 2019, 10:18

EeK wrote:If you check the results, both the maximum and minimum input lag are increased with a lower framerate, as expected (even though the average remains about the same).

I just wanted to revisit and expound on this chart for clarity (didn't initially have the time to):

Image

The scenarios outlined in red are within margin of error, and the scenarios outlined in green are not when compared to the scenarios in red (probably obvious, but worth pointing out for what I'm about to break down next).

First off, the left three scenarios, second from the top down, were at 139 FPS, because NULL auto caps to 138/139 FPS @144Hz with G-SYNC + V-SYNC, so Chris was simply matching that number with the in-game cap for direct comparison purposes.

Secondly, even though the system is not GPU-bound in these scenarios, the pre-rendered frames queue is still in effect.

A common misunderstanding is if you have the pre-rendered frames queue set to "1," there's always 1 pre-rendered frame, or always 3 if it's set to "3," etc. However, this isn't the case. Pre-rendered frames at "1" isn't 1, it's 0-1, and 3 is 0-3, and so on.

It's a fallback. So since the GPU isn't maxed, and has plenty of headroom, the pre-rendered frames queue doesn't need to fill up as much as if the GPU were struggling to keep up, at which point, the CPU would be allowed to prepare more frame information in advance for the GPU.

With that out of the way, regarding the scenarios themselves (left side only, and let's focus on averages, not min/max):

  • G-SYNC + V-SYNC + NULL "Off" + 300 FPS in-game limit: 53ms
  • G-SYNC + V-SYNC + NULL "Ultra" (auto ~139 FPS limit): 44ms
  • G-SYNC + V-SYNC + NULL "Off" + 139 FPS in-game limit: 32ms
So, NULL reduces input lag in this instance by a little over 1 frame (9ms; 1 frame at 144Hz = 6.9ms), and the in-game limiter (without NULL) reduces input lag in this same instance by 3 frames (21ms).

Why? Again, a good in-game limiter, when used to keep the framerate within the refresh rate, eliminates V-SYNC input lag, keeps the pre-rendered frames queue effectively empty (so long as the framerate is limited by it), and utilizes the lower frametimes of an otherwise unlimited framerate to calculate, render, and deliver them faster.

For the direct purpose of input lag reduction, where and when available, a good in-game limiter is a no brainer (with RTSS obviously being a close runner up due to its steady frametime performance, its "neutral" input lag, and it being more commonly available for use).
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Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support

Postby Raiđen » 08 Nov 2019, 13:59

then you recommend using NULL off or on, I have a 240hz monitor and put vsync in the NPC on, Gsync activated in full screen and cap -3 fps inside the game archives, but I still don't know if NULL is better on or off in this case.
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Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support

Postby jorimt » 08 Nov 2019, 14:25

@Raiđen:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5903&start=30#p44825
Regarding Low Latency Mode "Ultra" vs. "On" when used in conjunction with G-SYNC + V-SYNC + -3 minimum FPS limit, I'd currently recommend "On" for two reasons:

1. "On" should have the same effect as "Ultra" in compatible games (that don't already have a MPRF queue of "1") in reducing the pre-rendered frames queue and input lag by up to 1 frame whenever your system's framerate drops below your set FPS limit vs. "Off."

2. Since "Ultra" non-optionally auto-caps the FPS at lower values than you can manually set with an FPS limiter, for the direct purposes of point "1" above, you'd have to set your FPS limiter below that when using "Ultra" to prevent it from being the framerate's limiting factor, and allow the in-game (or RTSS) limiter to take effect. At 144Hz, you would need to cap a couple frames below 138, which isn't a big deal, but at 240Hz, "Ultra" will auto-cap the FPS to 224 FPS, which I find a little excessive, so "On" which doesn't auto-cap, but should still reduce the pre-rendered frames queue by the same amount as "Ultra" in GPU-bound situations (within the G-SYNC range) is more suited to such a setup.
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Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support

Postby Raiđen » 08 Nov 2019, 14:45

Thanks very kind, Jorimt.
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Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support

Postby jorimt » 08 Nov 2019, 15:39

No problem :)
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Re: Driver 441.08: Ultra-Low Latency Now with G-SYNC Support

Postby 1000WATT » 08 Nov 2019, 18:24

I do not have overwatch. :( but there is fortnite, battlefield.
nvcp v-sync off + g-sync on = fps no limit.
nvcp v-sync off + g-sync on + ingame v-sync on/off = fps no limit.
nvcp v-sync auto + g-sync on + ingame v-sync on = standart v-sync but no auto-cap
only
nvcp v-sync on + g-sync on = auto-cap
this behavior on my system.

If this graph does not lie, then something is wrong with my system.
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