Trying to understand gsync and fps with vsync - Apex legends specifically

Talk about NVIDIA G-SYNC, a variable refresh rate (VRR) technology. G-SYNC eliminates stutters, tearing, and reduces input lag. List of G-SYNC Monitors.
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irfanintekhab
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Trying to understand gsync and fps with vsync - Apex legends specifically

Post by irfanintekhab » 20 Sep 2021, 01:17

Hey guys, i recently got myself a lg 27g850-b. I've never used g sync before this. I read through the forums and faqs and documentations on here as much as I could and I fairly understand what's going on. Need help with a specific thing.

I've come down to setting Apex as such. Gsync on, nvcp v sync on. Now after this, if I set the fps limit in game to 141, 142, 143 via a command line in launch options, the fps seems to be stuck at 138, and even if i set the fps limit in nvcp to 141,142,143 whatever. It's still stuck around 138.

Checking the fps in the performance overlay that Apex has in game.

Now i am not able to understand how should I now set this up? I cannot make out a difference in input lag between setting the fps to 141 or 143.also because to change this fps limit I have to restart the game and after that long I cannot really make out a difference between two fps limits. And all fps limits seem to be running smoothly without any tearing.

Kindly help thank you!

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RealNC
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Re: Trying to understand gsync and fps with vsync - Apex legends specifically

Post by RealNC » 20 Sep 2021, 05:00

irfanintekhab wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 01:17
I've come down to setting Apex as such. Gsync on, nvcp v sync on. Now after this, if I set the fps limit in game to 141, 142, 143 via a command line in launch options, the fps seems to be stuck at 138, and even if i set the fps limit in nvcp to 141,142,143 whatever. It's still stuck around 138.
When you set the low latency mode to "ultra" in the nvidia control panel, the driver will automatically cap FPS to 138 when using 144Hz. This is because nvidia considers 141FPS too high a cap for g-sync. There is no way to avoid that other than not using the "ultra" setting. If you change it to "on", the nvidia cap should disappear.
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jorimt
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Re: Trying to understand gsync and fps with vsync - Apex legends specifically

Post by jorimt » 20 Sep 2021, 08:06

irfanintekhab wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 01:17
I've come down to setting Apex as such. Gsync on, nvcp v sync on. Now after this, if I set the fps limit in game to 141, 142, 143 via a command line in launch options, the fps seems to be stuck at 138, and even if i set the fps limit in nvcp to 141,142,143 whatever. It's still stuck around 138.
That's expected.

Like RealNC stated, it's Nvidia's auto limiter, which can occur with G-SYNC + NVCP V-SYNC + Low Latency Mode "Ultra" or G-SYNC + NVCP V-SYNC + Reflex (which replaces LLM). Like my article's original recommendation, Nvidia has it in place to keep the framerate within the refresh rate to keep G-SYNC active at all times.

Apex does have Reflex. I casually tested Reflex implementation when it first released for this game, and at that time, I don't think I could get the auto FPS limiter to disable (so I could use my own limit) when G-SYNC was on. Not sure if they've changed the behavior since. I'd have to check.

Either way, there's virtually no visual/input lag difference between 141 and 138 FPS at 144Hz with G-SYNC, so I wouldn't worry about it regardless.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

irfanintekhab
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Re: Trying to understand gsync and fps with vsync - Apex legends specifically

Post by irfanintekhab » 20 Sep 2021, 08:37

Oh thanks for the info. I somehow didn't come across how ultra limits fps.

So in this case, is it better to switch of latency mode and cap at 141. Or keep latency at ultra and let it cap itself at 138?

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Re: Trying to understand gsync and fps with vsync - Apex legends specifically

Post by RealNC » 20 Sep 2021, 13:44

irfanintekhab wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 08:37
So in this case, is it better to switch of latency mode and cap at 141. Or keep latency at ultra and let it cap itself at 138?
In-game limiters are usually better. So either disable ultra LL, or use an in-game cap that's lower than 138.
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Re: Trying to understand gsync and fps with vsync - Apex legends specifically

Post by jorimt » 20 Sep 2021, 18:08

irfanintekhab wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 08:37
So in this case, is it better to switch of latency mode and cap at 141. Or keep latency at ultra and let it cap itself at 138?
If your system can maintain your framerate at the set limit 99% of the time, it's better to disable LLM and Reflex, and use an in-game limiter with G-SYNC, at least where least the amount of latency is concerned, though external limiters such as Nvidia MFR and RTSS don't add much more delay (<1 frame over in-game) and further stabilize frametime performance (the latter of which is less necessary with G-SYNC, as it already normalizes frame delivery).

That said, again, I'm not sure how Apex treats G-SYNC + NVCP V-SYNC with it's Reflex implementation as of now. Like I mentioned, last I tried it, I couldn't get the auto limiter to disable with G-SYNC + NVCP V-SYNC enabled.

If I get the chance to test this out, I'll report back here and share my findings.

In the meantime, RealNC's recommendations are correct in that particular context.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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Re: Trying to understand gsync and fps with vsync - Apex legends specifically

Post by jorimt » 23 Sep 2021, 14:18

irfanintekhab wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 01:17
I've come down to setting Apex as such. Gsync on, nvcp v sync on. Now after this, if I set the fps limit in game to 141, 142, 143 via a command line in launch options, the fps seems to be stuck at 138, and even if i set the fps limit in nvcp to 141,142,143 whatever. It's still stuck around 138.
I managed to test this in this particular game...

The auto FPS limit is only applied if you use G-SYNC + NVCP or in-game V-SYNC + LLM "Ultra" or Reflex. For no auto FPS limit with G-SYNC + V-SYNC (NVCP or in-game) in Apex, use LLM "On" or "Off" and disable Reflex in-game.

Alternatively, you can use G-SYNC on + V-SYNC off + Reflex to prevent the auto FPS limit, but that will still allow tearing with G-SYNC, even with framerates inside the refresh rate.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

diakou
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Re: Trying to understand gsync and fps with vsync - Apex legends specifically

Post by diakou » 24 Sep 2021, 08:05

jorimt wrote:
23 Sep 2021, 14:18
irfanintekhab wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 01:17
I've come down to setting Apex as such. Gsync on, nvcp v sync on. Now after this, if I set the fps limit in game to 141, 142, 143 via a command line in launch options, the fps seems to be stuck at 138, and even if i set the fps limit in nvcp to 141,142,143 whatever. It's still stuck around 138.
I managed to test this in this particular game...

The auto FPS limit is only applied if you use G-SYNC + NVCP or in-game V-SYNC + LLM "Ultra" or Reflex. For no auto FPS limit with G-SYNC + V-SYNC (NVCP or in-game) in Apex, use LLM "On" or "Off" and disable Reflex in-game.

Alternatively, you can use G-SYNC on + V-SYNC off + Reflex to prevent the auto FPS limit, but that will still allow tearing with G-SYNC, even with framerates inside the refresh rate.
Fast Sync as well :P

As stupidly "redundant" as it is, G-Sync + Fastsync + Reflex allows you to utilize any framerate limit you'd want, without tearing within range and avoiding normal V-Sync behavior outside of range (due to fastsync)

Special K (thanks to it's reflex backport implementation into... anything and the absolute best framerate limiter known to mankind as of now) has allowed me to experiment a lot with many games and an early issue I got was reflex's autocapping behavior with vsync on.

The funny part is - reflex will autocap with VRR even when vsync is off if DXGI_PRESENT_ALLOW_TEARING is not enabled in FSO games (Hardware: Independent Flip). (Legacy Flip'd games will not exhibit the autocapping with vsync off no matter what) Most games are automatically flagged for it though thanks to Microsoft's internal whitelisting check on game start when VRR is enabled on a system.

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Re: Trying to understand gsync and fps with vsync - Apex legends specifically

Post by jorimt » 24 Sep 2021, 09:04

diakou wrote:
24 Sep 2021, 08:05
Fast Sync as well :P

As stupidly "redundant" as it is, G-Sync + Fastsync + Reflex allows you to utilize any framerate limit you'd want, without tearing within range and avoiding normal V-Sync behavior outside of range (due to fastsync)
Ah, I did not even think to try that this time, as I don't generally recommend pairing Fast Sync with G-SYNC, but noted nonetheless:
https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101- ... ettings/8/
diakou wrote:
24 Sep 2021, 08:05
The funny part is - reflex will autocap with VRR even when vsync is off if DXGI_PRESENT_ALLOW_TEARING is not enabled in FSO games (Hardware: Independent Flip). (Legacy Flip'd games will not exhibit the autocapping with vsync off no matter what) Most games are automatically flagged for it though thanks to Microsoft's internal whitelisting check on game start when VRR is enabled on a system.
Good ole' convoluted modern FSO interactions.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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