Absurd G-sync Microstutter

Talk about NVIDIA G-SYNC, a variable refresh rate (VRR) technology. G-SYNC eliminates stutters, tearing, and reduces input lag. List of G-SYNC Monitors.
Argus
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Absurd G-sync Microstutter

Post by Argus » 23 May 2022, 15:11

I've had this bullshit g-sync microstutter I've had since 2016 now. It does not matter what hardware I use or what settings I use, eveyrsingle fucking game microstutters and hitches.

My motherfucking 2012 asus G750jz has smoother gameplay than whatever piece of shit hardware I've dumped tens of thousands of dollars on. I upgraded from a 5820k 980TI to a 10850k 3080ti and it made no difference whatsoever. Still microstuttering and hitching like crazy.

I check my frametimes and they are rock solid stable 7.0ms at 144hz yet still the games I play feel like shit and I get absurd vertical tearing and rippling effect.

Yes, I have followed and applied all the recommended G-sync settings in the blur buster article yet it stills feels unsmooth and jittery despite every measurable metric such as frametime and fps telling me otherwise. I cannot tell what's going on.

Meanwhile my 10 year old gaming laptop Asus g750jz has the smoothest fucking gameplay I have ever seen in my entire fucking life while barely maintaining 57 fps maximum on any game and having extremely variable frametimes. It's so fucking humiliating that after $10K usd spent on PC upgrades, nothing even holds a candle to how smooth my shitty g750 laptop screen is. It's actually unreal.

Somehow even though I sometimes get diagonal screen tearing and jittering on that laptop, it feels infinitely smoother than whatever setup I have currently.

I don't get it. I just don't fucking get it and I'm losing my fucking mind over this shit. How is it possible for my shitty laptop that fluctuates between 30-60 fps to be a better smoother gaming experience than my motherfucking 3080ti getting constant 140fps 7.2ms frametime? How? Just fucking how? I've upgraded and bought new entire systems twice to "fix" this g-sync bullshit and try to replicate that laptop screen's feeling but nothing compares.

Also for some reason, MSI afterburner no longer displays frametime graphs for me for seemingly no reason at all. No updates, no changes in settings, yet the frametime graph now refuses to show up in any game I play.


Please someone help me fix this fucking nightmare; I've lost too much money to quit now. I've tried turning off g-sync but then I get tearing plus even worse stuttering.

smorgar
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Re: Absurd G-sync Microstutter

Post by smorgar » 24 May 2022, 06:51

I think you and me are in the same boat.
I have stable 355fps gsync and rock solid frame times with a maximum jitter of 0.1
Even though i get vertical tearing from time to time. Some times is very smooth, and then all of a sudden it starts to mini/mico-stutter with some vertical judder.

I have reinstalled win10, and at the same time reset all bios settings to just set the necessary settings to run my pc.
Tweaked my gpu settings in nvcpl like a mad man with no improvement. This actually happens even without gsync, but ofc its more noticeable with gsync since it has a smoother baseline.
I have tuned and played with power profiles in windows and timer tool to force lower timer settings. Even timer tool shows weird values:
0.9973ms instead of 1ms
If i force 0,5ms it sets to 0.496ms

One thing i have noticed is that my Hz settings for the monitor in windows 10 displays values with comma like:
59,989hz
119,982hz
143,981hz
240,000hz
299,953hz
360,116hz
(yes the correct display dirvers are installed from asus website)

I guess it does not round off the values but i have never seen that before...
My only clue is: maybe my Hz or timer settings are "off" and thus ends up in a weird state every now and then which results in stutters/judder.
This is driving me nuts, im thinking its placebo in my mind but it cant be. Does my brain get error and repeat a few frames? No way.

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: Absurd G-sync Microstutter

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 24 May 2022, 12:11

smorgar wrote:
24 May 2022, 06:51
I think you and me are in the same boat.
Actually -- based on what I am reading, you two are in completely separate boats.

Completely unrelated problems, in my experience. I have odd Hz that is running perfectly smooth.

Windows usually rounds-off these values in the past. It appears that your version of Windows stopped rounding-off Hz, for that specific screen.

On most monitors, Hz has always been "off", almost never exactly 240.000Hz. In many screens, windows simply hid the fact (in the past) by rounding it off. This is completely normal. You had to go to certain screens to see the non-rounded-off values, or use a Custom Resolution Utility. Windows may have also disabled rounding-off.

What catches my attention is something else -- "0.9973ms instead of 1ms" -- that part is unexpected. That being said, I don't personally tweak those values myself.
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Re: Absurd G-sync Microstutter

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 24 May 2022, 12:15

Argus wrote:
23 May 2022, 15:11
I don't get it. I just don't fucking get it and I'm losing my fucking mind over this shit. How is it possible for my shitty laptop that fluctuates between 30-60 fps to be a better smoother gaming experience than my motherfucking 3080ti getting constant 140fps 7.2ms frametime? How? Just fucking how? I've upgraded and bought new entire systems twice to "fix" this g-sync bullshit and try to replicate that laptop screen's feeling but nothing compares.

Also for some reason, MSI afterburner no longer displays frametime graphs for me for seemingly no reason at all. No updates, no changes in settings, yet the frametime graph now refuses to show up in any game I play.
To help narrow down problems, may I have a screenshot of www.testufo.com/animation-time-graph ?

Nothing running, just the web browser, one tab, nothing in the background. Although the TestUFO is not perfect, it's a very good detector of nasty system tray apps -- if you see periodic red spikes (e.g. once a second or three seconds or whatever), some system tray app is stealing a lot of resources -- e.g. an inefficient RGB-animator app, for example.

This will help isolate certain things away from games/drivers.

Also, are you using multimonitor? Try disabling multimonitor and running just 1 monitor, no mirroring. Multimonitor adds stutter.

Also, longshot, also try www.testufo.com/frameskipping in case you've got a refresh-cycle-skipping flaw somewhere. (e.g. bugs in 144 Hz monitors). Make sure you disable multimonitor first.

If you get frametimes to show again, please show Afterburner graphs here too -- sometimes I can diagnose problems just by looking at graphs.

Let's see if I can help you with this -- just need to see a bunch of frametime graph screenshots (as well as TestUFO animation time graph, which is sensitive to background software)

jorimt, the bigtime G-SYNC expert here, may chime in too.
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jorimt
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Re: Absurd G-sync Microstutter

Post by jorimt » 24 May 2022, 13:20

Argus wrote:
23 May 2022, 15:11
I get absurd vertical tearing and rippling effect.
You can't experience tearing with properly configured G-SYNC, which leads me to believe it's not fully engaged (or engaged at all) on the monitor model you didn't specify.

Please provide more specifics here, or there's simply not enough information to even start helping you troubleshoot. For instance, can you provide your general PC specs, and name the monitor model and current G-SYNC settings you're experiencing issues with?

Also, are you experiencing the same or similar issues on the problem setup with G-SYNC off + V-SYNC off + uncapped framerate? If so, that would point to a frametime performance issue separate of G-SYNC operation, which can vary in severity and frequency by system and/or game.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

smorgar
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Re: Absurd G-sync Microstutter

Post by smorgar » 24 May 2022, 16:11

Today i found the "TmerBench" tool and got some interesting results. Would this maybe explain why i notice hickups/judder from time to time?
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jorimt
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Re: Absurd G-sync Microstutter

Post by jorimt » 24 May 2022, 16:32

smorgar wrote:
24 May 2022, 16:11
Today i found the "TmerBench" tool and got some interesting results. Would this maybe explain why i notice hickups/judder from time to time?
G-SYNC will only prevent V-SYNC stutter. Any frametime spike-related stutter you're experiencing with G-SYNC off + V-SYNC off you will still experience with G-SYNC on + V-SYNC on/off, regardless of G-SYNC configuration.

Frametime issues are distinct and predominately separate from G-SYNC performance, mainly stemming from the given system and/or game engine.

G-SYNC is only there to prevent tearing at variable framerates within the refresh rate, and while it can create a perception of smoother frametime delivery due to its 1:1 syncing of the display with the GPU output, it's not a miracle worker, and is too often mistaken for a system stutter "fixer," which it is absolutely not.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

smorgar
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Re: Absurd G-sync Microstutter

Post by smorgar » 25 May 2022, 04:41

I figured out that the spikes i get in TimerBench is when the scene changes, like a loading screen so those spikes on the graph are not my problem.
Yesterday i put my game (diabotical afps) to buffer 2 frames instead of 1. The effect is a bit more sluggish mouse feel but it seems to remove the stutter almost fully.
The Stutter/judder or whatever often shows up after some time playing. That would suggest cooling issues in my experience but everything is running cool and stable, no fluctuations in either cpu or gpu clock. If i measure my frame time with RTSS it wont show of the frame time graph when i get the stutter. Same with cpu/gpu clocks, just a flat stable line. Restarting the game does not make it go away, only restart of PC but then after some time it shows up again. With a fresh restarted PC the game runs like butter for maybe up to 1h.

Im not to sure how Resizable BAR would impact things but its turned on. Could that one possibly effect my performance in a negative way?

The weirdest part is that the OP have changed hes pc one or two times, same as me. The only common component is my usb sound card and monitor+mouse+keeb.

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jorimt
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Re: Absurd G-sync Microstutter

Post by jorimt » 25 May 2022, 16:26

smorgar wrote:
25 May 2022, 04:41
Frametime spikes occur when even a single frame takes longer than a single refresh cycle to render and display. The appearance of stutter in these instances is caused by the previously completed frame repeating its display once or more while it waits for the next frame to finish rendering (and there can be a chain reaction here; previous frame repeats once, new frame, previous frame (the last new frame) repeats three times, new frame, etc).

At 144Hz 144 FPS, for instance, if even a single frame takes longer than 6.9ms to render, a frametime spike will occur. At 240Hz 240 FPS, the system and game engine now only have 4.2ms to render each frame, etc.

The higher the refresh rate with the higher sustained framerate, the more likely you are to experience frametime spikes. Depending on the cause, you can mitigate them, but there's no eliminating them.

Some game engine's just suck and will cause frametime spikes due to asset streaming, shader compilation, and/or general caching issues, no matter how powerful or optimized your system is.

As for any issues beyond that, which may be specific to your system, components, and/or software configuration, good luck narrowing it down. It can be anything (including inflated expectations, assuming your typical frametime spike in your typical game is below 100 or 50ms, and mainly occurs during scene transitions, or when entering into new areas, at least).

Finally, regarding your issue with RTSS not reflecting frametime spikes, if you're framerate is capped with RTSS and the average doesn't drop below it when the stutter occurs, it may not show in the graph in all cases. Otherwise, not sure. Difficult to diagnose with the provided info.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

smorgar
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Re: Absurd G-sync Microstutter

Post by smorgar » 26 May 2022, 06:06

jorimt wrote:
25 May 2022, 16:26
Frametime spikes occur when even a single frame takes longer than a single refresh cycle to render and display. The appearance of stutter in these instances is caused by the previously completed frame repeating its display once or more while it waits for the next frame to finish rendering (and there can be a chain reaction here; previous frame repeats once, new frame, previous frame (the last new frame) repeats three times, new frame, etc).
...
This is what im thinking is my problem. And if i look at the judder as i would like to call it that is what it looks like. Like one frame repeating and then jumps to next and then goes back to the previous frame and a split second later its smooth again.
Very interesting info regarding the game engine/frame times in different fps limits and screen hertz.
I will try to go down to 300hz and even down to 240 just to see how that plays out.

Thank you for broadening my horizon!

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