G-Sync - Laggy at <55fps, same for you ???

Talk about NVIDIA G-SYNC, a variable refresh rate (VRR) technology. G-SYNC eliminates stutters, tearing, and reduces input lag. List of G-SYNC Monitors.
gridironcpj
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Re: G-Sync - Laggy at <55fps, same for you ???

Post by gridironcpj » 20 Sep 2014, 05:51

GameLifter wrote:Good news guys. The latest driver (344.11) has fixed the stuttering issues I was getting. The panning in Crysis 3 is now smooth with a mouse and BF3 is perfect. The only stutter I notice now in games in when the engine stutters. Now this is what I was expecting out of Gsync! I hope everyone else has the same luck I had with the new drivers!
Battlefield 4 performance is worse with this new driver for me (SLI Titans). I'm now getting FPS drops below 60 for no reason and they just stay down there for a period of time. G-sync can't even save me from that. Overall performance is a little lower with the new drivers. It's probably because Nvidia wants the 980 to look better compared to GK110 cards :roll:

TrueDespair
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Re: AW: G-Sync - Laggy at <55fps, same for you ???

Post by TrueDespair » 20 Sep 2014, 10:49

Today I install the new 344.11 on my system and I feel a noticeable better experience with GSync with my i5 3570k (OC) 4.4Ghz + GTX 780 (OC) 1200Mhz + 8GB (OC) 2133Mhz

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GameLifter
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Re: G-Sync - Laggy at <55fps, same for you ???

Post by GameLifter » 20 Sep 2014, 11:12

gridironcpj wrote:
GameLifter wrote:Good news guys. The latest driver (344.11) has fixed the stuttering issues I was getting. The panning in Crysis 3 is now smooth with a mouse and BF3 is perfect. The only stutter I notice now in games in when the engine stutters. Now this is what I was expecting out of Gsync! I hope everyone else has the same luck I had with the new drivers!
Battlefield 4 performance is worse with this new driver for me (SLI Titans). I'm now getting FPS drops below 60 for no reason and they just stay down there for a period of time. G-sync can't even save me from that. Overall performance is a little lower with the new drivers. It's probably because Nvidia wants the 980 to look better compared to GK110 cards :roll:
That stinks :-( Is that in multiplayer or single player? I tried BF4 in single player for a little bit and the performance was the same but Gsync was working better. I still got a lot of engine stutters but I blame that on my 2GB Vram.
TrueDespair wrote:Today I install the new 344.11 on my system and I feel a noticeable better experience with GSync with my i5 3570k (OC) 4.4Ghz + GTX 780 (OC) 1200Mhz + 8GB (OC) 2133Mhz
Good to hear! It seems they made some kind of improvement with the latest driver.

slickric21
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Re: G-Sync - Laggy at <55fps, same for you ???

Post by slickric21 » 20 Sep 2014, 16:35

Hmmmmm.

Using 344.11 and ive got terrible mouse jerkiness in BF4 and Crysis 3 (only fpshooters ive got installed currently)

If I disable Gsync, its fine.
Enable Gsync, it occurs.

I can even see it in the ingame menus, if i just drag the mouse cursor across the screen, its like it gets stuck in certain places.
If i'm ingame, I can be running one way, then the next second im facing the other way or cant turn round.

Mouse is a Logitech G700s gaming, polling rate 1000, dpi 1500.

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GameLifter
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Re: G-Sync - Laggy at <55fps, same for you ???

Post by GameLifter » 20 Sep 2014, 17:03

slickric21 wrote:Hmmmmm.

Using 344.11 and ive got terrible mouse jerkiness in BF4 and Crysis 3 (only fpshooters ive got installed currently)

If I disable Gsync, its fine.
Enable Gsync, it occurs.

I can even see it in the ingame menus, if i just drag the mouse cursor across the screen, its like it gets stuck in certain places.
If i'm ingame, I can be running one way, then the next second im facing the other way or cant turn round.

Mouse is a Logitech G700s gaming, polling rate 1000, dpi 1500.
The mouse cursor gets stuck? I've had that happen a few times at the desktop but that's when Gsync is disabled. Could it be something with your mouse?

slickric21
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Re: G-Sync - Laggy at <55fps, same for you ???

Post by slickric21 » 21 Sep 2014, 05:02

Okay sorted that mouse freezing issue. Just done a clean OS install and its all ok now. Maybe there was some driver conflict or something, anyway its sorted thank god!!!

Just been testing the new 344.11 drivers and i have to conclude that they feel and behave the same at lower fps than all the previous drivers.

I have now come to the conclusion, that has been said by others here before, that even G-Sync cannot make low fps feel any better.
Low fps is low fps period.
You still need upwards of 50-55fps to not feel that slowdown of your mouse panning/movement in a game.
Using a gamepad does mitigate this somewhat, as you cannot pan fast with a gamepad anyway so you dont notice as much.

One thing I have found though is that if you limit your fps somewhat, so you dont get those massive framerate variances, then you tend not to notice or feel those moments when you get low fps as much.
For eg in BF4 multiplayer on Caspian Border map in the wooded area, I can go from 100fps right down to 45fps in some cicumstances. It feels horrendous on the mouse movement.
If I limit fps to say 65 to start with, then it doesn't feel so bad.Only downside to this is of course you lose that lightning fast snappy feel of your mouse that you get at high fps, but overall its worth it for me as I like to immerse myself in the game and have a consistent experience.

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GameLifter
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Re: G-Sync - Laggy at <55fps, same for you ???

Post by GameLifter » 22 Sep 2014, 11:12

slickric21 wrote:Okay sorted that mouse freezing issue. Just done a clean OS install and its all ok now. Maybe there was some driver conflict or something, anyway its sorted thank god!!!

Just been testing the new 344.11 drivers and i have to conclude that they feel and behave the same at lower fps than all the previous drivers.

I have now come to the conclusion, that has been said by others here before, that even G-Sync cannot make low fps feel any better.
Low fps is low fps period.
You still need upwards of 50-55fps to not feel that slowdown of your mouse panning/movement in a game.
Using a gamepad does mitigate this somewhat, as you cannot pan fast with a gamepad anyway so you dont notice as much.

One thing I have found though is that if you limit your fps somewhat, so you dont get those massive framerate variances, then you tend not to notice or feel those moments when you get low fps as much.
For eg in BF4 multiplayer on Caspian Border map in the wooded area, I can go from 100fps right down to 45fps in some cicumstances. It feels horrendous on the mouse movement.
If I limit fps to say 65 to start with, then it doesn't feel so bad.Only downside to this is of course you lose that lightning fast snappy feel of your mouse that you get at high fps, but overall its worth it for me as I like to immerse myself in the game and have a consistent experience.
Sweet! Glad you got everything sorted out. While Gsync doesn't make lower fps ranges feel really smooth, it does make them feel a little better to me. When I play Crysis 3 and it dips it into the 40s which happens often, it's not quite as jarring as it was before and it doesn't ruin my aim as much. It's still noticeable because like you and others have said, low fps is low fps.

As for the stuttering I was getting before the driver update, it seems it was a different type of stutter than what everyone was referring to in this thread. It wasn't the slowdown you get from the fps being low it was actually a slideshow like motion. It would also occur in some games when the fps was above 60 so it was definitely a flaw with the driver. Luckily it's all good now and I'm now enjoying my ROG Swift even more.

Alexious
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Re: G-Sync - Laggy at <55fps, same for you ???

Post by Alexious » 22 Mar 2015, 08:05

RealNC wrote:There is a solution for this, but it's up to nvidia to implement it. When the maximum G-Sync frequency is equal of less than the monitor's maximum frequency, then g-sync should display the same frame twice every time, doubling the frequency.

For example, in a 144Hz monitor, if you set "72Hz doubled" as the G-Sync mode (obviously it doesn't exist right now), then games that render at 30FPS will have a 60Hz mouse cursor.

It could also be possible to do this every time without having to manually configure anything. For example, if the framerate falls below 60FPS, then g-sync could use frame doubling anyway. But there's problems because of quick framerate fluctuations, which means that this approach would increase input lag if g-sync is currently displaying a the second duplicate frame but the GPU has a new frame ready which now needs to wait (so you're in a v-sync situation.) So this can only work reliably when using a g-sync max freq that's below the max monitor freq.
Actually that's already happening according to PCPer, at least below 30Hz. That's what they wrote in their FreeSync review from last week: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Displays/A ... e-VRR-Wind
But what happens with this FreeSync monitor and theoretical G-Sync monitor below the window? AMD’s implementation means that you get the option of disabling or enabling VSync. For the 34UM67 as soon as your game frame rate drops under 48 FPS you will either see tearing on your screen or you will begin to see hints of stutter and judder as the typical (and previously mentioned) VSync concerns again crop their head up. At lower frame rates (below the window) these artifacts will actually impact your gaming experience much more dramatically than at higher frame rates (above the window).

G-Sync treats this “below the window” scenario very differently. Rather than reverting to VSync on or off, the module in the G-Sync display is responsible for auto-refreshing the screen if the frame rate dips below the minimum refresh of the panel that would otherwise be affected by flicker. So, in a 30-144 Hz G-Sync monitor, we have measured that when the frame rate actually gets to 29 FPS, the display is actually refreshing at 58 Hz, each frame being “drawn” one extra instance to avoid flicker of the pixels but still maintains a tear free and stutter free animation. If the frame rate dips to 25 FPS, then the screen draws at 50 Hz. If the frame rate drops to something more extreme like 14 FPS, we actually see the module quadruple drawing the frame, taking the refresh rate back to 56 Hz. It’s a clever trick that keeps the VRR goals and prevents a degradation of the gaming experience. But, this method requires a local frame buffer and requires logic on the display controller to work. Hence, the current implementation in a G-Sync module.

This graph represents a scenario in a game where the frame rate is dropping over some amount of time, indicated by the blue line moving from right to left. It could be the gamer entering a very intense action scene, for example, with hardware that is seeing frame rates slowly dropping from ~40-50 FPS down to 10 FPS.

I made this diagram to demonstrate what we think is happening with G-Sync based on our testing. I should be clear that NVIDIA did not give us this information nor did it confirm if we are accurate or not. If correct though, as the game frame rate decreases it will double, triple, quadruple, etc. frame draws to maintain a draw rate over 30 Hz. There are interesting edges that occur with this method too though, including when to actually redraw an existing frame from local memory if another new frame from the GPU is "nearly" ready. It would appear that NVIDIA has been and will continue to tweak this algorithm in attempt to keep user experience optimal.
Image

MxOAgentJohnson
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Re: G-Sync - Laggy at <55fps, same for you ???

Post by MxOAgentJohnson » 22 Mar 2015, 08:56

Right now i'm trying 3 games out, if the fps fluctuates on them the mouse stutters but if i use a gamepad it is silky smooth if the fps jumps about
the games tested Tomb Raider, Batman Arkham Origins and Ethan Carter.
My mouse is a Razer Abyssus at 1000hz polling rate, infact if i turn the polling rate down it stutters even more.
If the fps is locked to 60 or 120, always the mouse is fine.
This is getting weird.

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GameLifter
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Re: G-Sync - Laggy at <55fps, same for you ???

Post by GameLifter » 23 Mar 2015, 12:01

MxOAgentJohnson wrote:Right now i'm trying 3 games out, if the fps fluctuates on them the mouse stutters but if i use a gamepad it is silky smooth if the fps jumps about
the games tested Tomb Raider, Batman Arkham Origins and Ethan Carter.
My mouse is a Razer Abyssus at 1000hz polling rate, infact if i turn the polling rate down it stutters even more.
If the fps is locked to 60 or 120, always the mouse is fine.
This is getting weird.
I had the same experience with Tomb Raider and Crysis 3 when I first got my Swift. Like I said in my previous posts Crysis 3 got fixed with a driver update but with Tomb Raider I never tried it again using a mouse since I prefer to play it with a controller. I'll load it up again sometime and see if it still has stuttery mouse movement.

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