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Does GSYNC work with video players? [edit: yes, sometimes]

Talk about NVIDIA G-SYNC, a variable refresh rate (VRR) technology. G-SYNC eliminates stutters, tearing, and reduces input lag. List of G-SYNC Monitors.

Does GSYNC work with video players? [edit: yes, sometimes]

Postby Valyrian » 24 Jan 2014, 04:02

Hi guys,

Long time lurker (off and on), first time poster here. First off I'd just like to say thanks for all the great info this site has provided. In fact, it is one of the main reasons I bought a VG248QE last summer, and I've been very pleased with the purchase. The colors may not be the best, but they're good enough for me, and the smoothness in gaming (especially since shooters are my favorites) is something I can never go without again.

However there is one big problem with it, and that is motion in movies, tv shows, and other videos that I watch. During action or when the camera is panning across a scene, it often looks like the cameraman has a fast tremor like Parkinsons or something. I don't know what the right word for it is (stutter or jitter or maybe something else), but the effect is visible across the whole screen and it's definitely not just the low frame rate. I've noticed that changing the refresh rate from 144Hz to 60Hz and turning down the "Trace Free" feature in the OSD from 80 to 0 both reduce this effect noticeably, however I have no idea why and I would appreciate if someone could explain this to me. Either way, it's a hassle and I usually don't bother changing these options back and forth daily just for the handful of scenes that have this problem.

So my main question is whether or not GSYNC would solve this problem and significantly improve motion in the movies and videos I watch. I know it only works with full screen applications, but I have yet to find any mention of this applying to video players in full screen mode as well. If it does, I think I will finally have enough incentive to swallow the seemingly over-sized price tag on the upgrade kit right now.
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Re: Does GSYNC work with video players?

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 24 Jan 2014, 04:10

This isn't fixed by GSYNC, though GSYNC can theoretically help video in the future for different reasons.

What you are likely witnessing is probably judder from 3:2 pulldown, where some frames repeat 3 refresh cycles and other frames repeat 2 refresh cycles, in a sequence 3:2:3:2:3:2 ...

It's been long time a problem of playing 24fps material on 60Hz.

For film, you want to convert the playback to 24p. (true 24 frames per second). To do so, you want the original DVD or Blu-Ray, and a good player (e.g. PowerDVD). Or find a video utility that removes the 3:2 pulldown judder. Switch your monitor refresh rate to 24Hz, 48Hz, 72Hz, 96Hz, 120Hz or 144Hz when playing back films, and switch your monitor refresh rate to 60Hz or 120Hz when playing back video. Or just stay at 120Hz when playing both 24fps film and 30fps/60fps video.

I should note that a lot of torrents won't have the proper playback fluidity. Also, a lot of Netflix players (e.g. Apple TV) don't play 24p properly (so it looks more juddery than a Blu-Ray or DVD), and you really need to find the right alternative that is able to do so.
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Re: Does GSYNC work with video players?

Postby Valyrian » 24 Jan 2014, 04:43

Hey Chief, thanks for the quick reply. Are you saying that a 24fps mkv or mp4 file in VLC media player is not running at "true 24 frames per second"? I've actually never heard "24p" before, so I'm not even sure if that means anything other than "24fps". I just assumed that if GSYNC was compatible with video players in full screen mode, then a 24fps video running at 24Hz instead of 144Hz would see just as much of an improvement in motion quality as a game would.
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Re: Does GSYNC work with video players?

Postby Neo » 24 Jan 2014, 06:05

Chief,

VG248QE is a lightboost model so most likely Valyrian is describing multi-image artifacts. 6x24fps is BAD. The strobing of course exaggerates the edges of moving images. And the 144 Hz refresh is a pefect interger of 24 FPS (6x) so it can't be the uneven inter-frame pulldown latency.

I started my own G-Sync for Video thread on the Nvidia site here: http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articl ... 1094930459

Yet no serious takers!

This is a VERY important issue. Gamers need to reach down and feel all the deep-seated wants they have for uber-displays and realize cinema/video/vr people have the same needs but most don't even know it. The average videophile doesn't know the difference between 59.94 Hz and 60 Hz. While the typical gamer would be willing to turn down quality settings to get stick figures running at 357.2 fps the average videophile is stuck on black levels. The video/cinema/vr market needs help getting it's ass in gear! Frame rate conversion is a subject of global significance: The ITU should be involved!


Outstanding question: does G-Sync work with media players, not just games? This need to be answered. Big time rewards when it is!

Also: can we use techniques such as smooth frame insertion (SFI) to modify the flicker/multi-imaging side effects of strobes on slow frame rates? It would be fascinating to hear from the emulator authors that use black frame insertion (BFI) if SFI would work better.
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Re: Does GSYNC work with video players?

Postby Neo » 24 Jan 2014, 06:13

Valyrian wrote:Hey Chief, thanks for the quick reply. Are you saying that a 24fps mkv or mp4 file in VLC media player is not running at "true 24 frames per second"? I've actually never heard "24p" before, so I'm not even sure if that means anything other than "24fps". I just assumed that if GSYNC was compatible with video players in full screen mode, then a 24fps video running at 24Hz instead of 144Hz would see just as much of an improvement in motion quality as a game would.


Hi Valyrian,

any benefits from frame rate sync would be due to avoiding the unevenness of 3:2 pulldown. 144 Hz is a perfect multiple for playing 24 fps content assuming it's actually 24 fps content and not 23.976 fps content (made for tv movies). Are you strobing? That messes with slow frame rates big time.

And 24p *is* true 24 fps progressive frames.
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Re: Does GSYNC work with video players?

Postby RealNC » 24 Jan 2014, 09:10

What I've done for 23.976FPS content (the majority of "film-like" TV shows) is create a 47.952Hz mode. The video players will then refrain from trying to do any pull-down. They output 1:1. (In reality it's 2:2, but that doesn't matter.)

If you're on Linux, the 1080p modeline for a 47.952Hz mode is:

Code: Select all
Modeline "1920x1080@47_952"  135.41 1920 2032 2232 2544  1080 1081 1084 1110  -hsync +vsync
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Re: Does GSYNC work with video players?

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 24 Jan 2014, 09:20

It's worth noting 144Hz is divisible by 24. You end up with a 6:6 pulldown.

But you said you are seeing nasty judder, so I am betting you see 3:2 pulldown, so just switching to 48Hz/72Hz/96Hz/120Hz/144Hz won't work until the 3:2 pulldown is removed.

"24p" is a terminology used in the Blu-Ray world, it just simply means "1080p 24fps"
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       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors
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Re: Does GSYNC work with video players?

Postby Neo » 24 Jan 2014, 12:18

Valyrian is strobing? Pretty much explains everything doesn't it? 24 fps x 6 after-imaging.
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Re: Does GSYNC work with video players?

Postby Valyrian » 24 Jan 2014, 12:37

No, actually I haven't been strobing this monitor recently, however now that you mention it I do think most of the content I watch is actually 23.976fps, so I guess that explains it. Also, I am not on Linux, but how is it that you can create a 47.952Hz mode? I thought refresh rates were limited to what the monitor is programmed to support natively (unless you get GSYNC of course). Furthermore, without GSYNC is it not likely that the refresh rate and video frame rate would still be out of sync even if they are exactly the same? Kinda like how you can still get terrible tearing if you frame cap a game to the monitor's refresh rate but don't use v-sync.
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Re: Does GSYNC work with video players?

Postby Ewok » 24 Jan 2014, 12:59

You can use ToastyX's Custom Resolution Utility to create custom refresh rate modes: http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Threa ... tility-CRU

You can use it to overclock (or underclock) the refresh rate. 48 FPS (2x24) doesn't work on my monitor, but 72 (3x24) does. It's a standard 60 Hz monitor.
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