Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Talk about NVIDIA G-SYNC, a variable refresh rate (VRR) technology. G-SYNC eliminates stutters, tearing, and reduces input lag. List of G-SYNC Monitors.
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by RealNC » 15 Feb 2022, 06:14

smoothnobody wrote:
15 Feb 2022, 02:27
makes sense. if you had a RTX 3080, and you didn't want to be bothered with turning LLM on and off based on what game you are playing, what would be your set it and forget it setting?
Ultra. If you see stutter in a game, you can always lower it for just that game's profile.
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by jorimt » 15 Feb 2022, 08:47

smoothnobody wrote:
15 Feb 2022, 02:27
makes sense. if you had a RTX 3080, and you didn't want to be bothered with turning LLM on and off based on what game you are playing, what would be your set it and forget it setting?
Similar to what RealNC said, if you're not using G-SYNC, and you must have LLM enabled, setting it to "Ultra" globally, with per-profile configuration in problem games is probably as set-and-forget as that settings will get.

My personal set-and-forget global setting for LLM is "On" with G-SYNC, since the only known difference between LLM "On" and "Ultra" with G-SYNC enabled, is "Ultra" sets an auto FPS limit and "On" doesn't, and I prefer to set my own FPS limits.
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by RealNC » 15 Feb 2022, 09:43

jorimt wrote:
15 Feb 2022, 08:47
My personal set-and-forget global setting for LLM is "On" with G-SYNC, since the only known difference between LLM "On" and "Ultra" with G-SYNC enabled, is "Ultra" sets an auto FPS limit and "On" doesn't, and I prefer to set my own FPS limits.
There's a situation where ultra is useful with g-sync. I usually set my FPS limit to something the game can reach the majority of the time. If there's like one specific area in a game where it falls a bit below the limit because that area is too GPU intensive, ultra helps reduce the input lag difference between that and the rest of the game. I find the lag difference actually more annoying that the FPS difference. Dropping from 100FPS to 80FPS isn't that bad in itself, but the lag difference due to GPU load can be quite noticeable.
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by jorimt » 15 Feb 2022, 13:04

RealNC wrote:
15 Feb 2022, 09:43
If there's like one specific area in a game where it falls a bit below the limit because that area is too GPU intensive, ultra helps reduce the input lag difference between that and the rest of the game.
Right, that's what I use LLM "On" for with G-SYNC.

Again, as far as is known, LLM "Ultra" sets an auto FPS limit (in supported games) slightly below the refresh rate when used with G-SYNC + NVCP V-SYNC, but said limit is static, unlike Reflex, which will set both a static limit slightly below the refresh rate when the GPU isn't maxed, and a dynamic limit when the GPU usage is maxed.

If LLM "Ultra" has the dynamic limiting component when used with G-SYNC, it's not something I have personally seen or heard of.
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by RealNC » 15 Feb 2022, 13:11

jorimt wrote:
15 Feb 2022, 13:04
If LLM "Ultra" has the dynamic limiting component when used with G-SYNC, it's not something I have personally seen or heard of.
I'm not sure why it would stop doing what it's known for just because g-sync is active? The just in time pre-render thing of ultra shouldn't be affected by vsync or gsync, I believe.
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by jorimt » 15 Feb 2022, 13:40

RealNC wrote:
15 Feb 2022, 13:11
I'm not sure why it would stop doing what it's known for just because g-sync is active? The just in time pre-render thing of ultra shouldn't be affected by vsync or gsync, I believe.
Would it not, since G-SYNC technically already delivers frames "just in time?" Non-GSYNC V-SYNC scenarios are stuck with fixed refresh intervals, though I suppose no sync would be exempt where the render queue is concerned in this scenario, so hard to say.

Again, I've never personally experienced a notable difference between LLM "On" and "Ultra" beyond the static FPS limit when used with G-SYNC (so I just assumed both LLM "On" and "Ultra" set MPRF to "1" with G-SYNC), and it's not like Nvidia is known for their transparent and extensive documentation on any of their settings where G-SYNC is concerned, so it would be difficult to isolate and confirm any difference between LLM "On" and "Ultra" consistently or conclusively with G-SYNC enabled.

I also had the understanding that a dynamic limiter would not be viable at the driver-level where LLM "Ultra" was concerned, hence why Reflex ultimately needed to be implemented at the engine-level, and now acts as an LLM replacement.

If you have a game you know for certain LLM works in and is easy to make GPU-bound, assuming I already own it, I would consider using my LDAT to do some limited testing in the (indefinite) future.
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by RealNC » 15 Feb 2022, 18:14

jorimt wrote:
15 Feb 2022, 13:40
Would it not, since G-SYNC technically already delivers frames "just in time?" Non-GSYNC V-SYNC scenarios are stuck with fixed refresh intervals, though I suppose no sync would be exempt where the render queue is concerned in this scenario, so hard to say.
G-sync doesn't seem to affect the pre-render queue at all. Like, not even a tiny bit. Which makes sense. It only syncs the display to the frame presentation. The pre-render queue has nothing to do with that.
Again, I've never personally experienced a notable difference between LLM "On" and "Ultra" beyond the static FPS limit when used with G-SYNC
Since there is a big difference between low latency mode OFF and ON with g-sync, it shouldn't come as a surprise that ultra also does the same thing with g-sync as it does without it.
I also had the understanding that a dynamic limiter would not be viable at the driver-level where LLM "Ultra" was concerned, hence why Reflex ultimately needed to be implemented at the engine-level, and now acts as an LLM replacement.
That's nice and all, but literally none of the games I play have reflex :mrgreen:
If you have a game you know for certain LLM works in and is easy to make GPU-bound, assuming I already own it, I would consider using my LDAT to do some limited testing in the (indefinite) future.
Witcher 3. I enabled DSR 4x on my 1440p display to get 5K resolution (5120x2880.) I then ran the game in that res, with g-sync on and LLM off. My poor 980 Ti can't cope well and it struggles to maintain even 30FPS at 5K. The input lag is so obvious, I can count the delay without any software. I then set LLM to ON, and it's clear as day that there's a huge input lag reduction. Setting it to ultra "seems to me" improves it a bit further, but it could be placebo. However, since OFF and ON have a huge latency difference beyond doubt, I don't see why ultra wouldn't improve it a bit further, like it does without g-sync.

You can also use profile inspector and set pre-rendered frames to something like 10. Good for a laugh. Input lag becomes so ludicrous, you can leave the PC and get a coffee between inputs :mrgreen: So it looks like g-sync doesn't do anything at all to the pre-render queue, and thus ultra should provide exactly the same behavior with g-sync as it does without g-sync (minus the FPS cap, of course.)
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by gameinn » 15 Feb 2022, 18:59

Just making sure I have this set up properly. 2 games in particular are interesting I'd like clarification on.

So step 1:

Image

Step 2: Low latency mode to On (not shown) and V sync On: Image

LG 27GP850 165 Hz 1440p

Game 1: Arkham Asylum

Image

Game only allows a hard capped 62 fps so an advanced launcher allows config of this. 165 Hz screen so I set 160.

Game 2: Death Stranding

https://i.imgur.com/YoMbcP5.jpeg

Game has a 30, 60, 120, 144 and 240 fps option. Am I correct in saying if I had a 144 Hz monitor choosing the 144 option would be borderline bad right due to how close it would be? Choosing 144 for a 165 Hz screen seems decent though. It would make more sense to choose 120 if I did have a 144 Hz screen?

Game 3: Overwatch. Also set the game to 160 fps like Arkham Asylum right? Do I enable nvidia reflex in the game also?
Last edited by gameinn on 15 Feb 2022, 20:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by jorimt » 15 Feb 2022, 20:02

RealNC wrote:
15 Feb 2022, 18:14
G-sync doesn't seem to affect the pre-render queue at all. Like, not even a tiny bit. Which makes sense. It only syncs the display to the frame presentation. The pre-render queue has nothing to do with that.
Aware, but it isn't confirmed how they flag ULLM at the driver level when G-SYNC is enabled where the "just-in-time" component is concerned.
RealNC wrote:
15 Feb 2022, 18:14
Since there is a big difference between low latency mode OFF and ON with g-sync, it shouldn't come as a surprise that ultra also does the same thing with g-sync as it does without it.
Possibly, but there hasn't been concrete evidence either way, unfortunately, hence the reason I've simply recommended "On" if one must use LLM with G-SYNC and also wants to set a manual FPS limit.
RealNC wrote:
15 Feb 2022, 18:14
That's nice and all, but literally none of the games I play have reflex :mrgreen:
Few do, especially single-player-only games.

I was recently playing GOW, and was only able to maintain 120 FPS 90% of the time at 1440p with my chosen settings (I played when DLSS was over-sharpened, so opted to go native at the time), thus Reflex covered the other 10% of instances (mostly cutscenes, ironically, but some heavier open gameplay areas with DOF as well).
RealNC wrote:
15 Feb 2022, 18:14
Witcher 3. I enabled DSR 4x on my 1440p display to get 5K resolution (5120x2880.) I then ran the game in that res, with g-sync on and LLM off. My poor 980 Ti can't cope well and it struggles to maintain even 30FPS at 5K. The input lag is so obvious, I can count the delay without any software. I then set LLM to ON, and it's clear as day that there's a huge input lag reduction. Setting it to ultra "seems to me" improves it a bit further, but it could be placebo. However, since OFF and ON have a huge latency difference beyond doubt, I don't see why ultra wouldn't improve it a bit further, like it does without g-sync.

You can also use profile inspector and set pre-rendered frames to something like 10. Good for a laugh. Input lag becomes so ludicrous, you can leave the PC and get a coffee between inputs :mrgreen: So it looks like g-sync doesn't do anything at all to the pre-render queue, and thus ultra should provide exactly the same behavior with g-sync as it does without g-sync (minus the FPS cap, of course.)
Again, regarding the emboldened in your quote, perhaps, it would just be really, really difficult to isolate with certainty, seeing as any difference between "Ultra" and "On" could be as low as a half frame in some cases. Hmm...
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by jorimt » 15 Feb 2022, 20:05

gameinn wrote:
15 Feb 2022, 18:59
Just making sure I have this set up properly. 2 games in particular are interesting I'd like clarification on.
That looks sufficient, sans the per-game FPS limits, of course.
gameinn wrote:
15 Feb 2022, 18:59
Game 1: Arkham Asylum

Game only allows a hard capped 62 fps so an advanced launcher allows config of this. 165 Hz screen so I set 160.
While there are exceptions, anything at or below -3 FPS is typically safe, even with an in-game limiter, so 160 FPS is fine.
gameinn wrote:
15 Feb 2022, 18:59
Game 2: Death Stranding

Game has a 30, 60, 120, 144 and 240 fps option. Am I correct in saying if I had a 144 Hz monitor choosing the 144 option would be borderline bad right due to how close it would be? Choosing 144 for a 165 Hz screen seems decent though. It would make more sense to choose 120 if I did have a 144 Hz screen?
Yes, if you were to choose a preset for a 144Hz G-SYNC display, 120 FPS would be the one; 144 FPS is too close.
gameinn wrote:
15 Feb 2022, 18:59
Game 3: Also set the game to 160 fps like Arkham Asylum right? Do I enable nvidia reflex in the game also?
You forgot to include the title for game #3.
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