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Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Talk about NVIDIA G-SYNC, a variable refresh rate (VRR) technology. G-SYNC eliminates stutters, tearing, and reduces input lag. List of G-SYNC Monitors.

Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Postby jorimt » 01 Oct 2017, 19:26

efflexthy wrote:For games like PUBG where framerates are unstable and fluctuate VERY often(e.g. Quite often fps drops to 60-80 when it sits at anywhere between 120-160 fps on other areas) what would be the ideal setting to use for lowest input lag possible? I'm currently using a 144 hz monitor.

As a followup, do you enable/disable triple buffering in the NVCP for when you use G-sync + V-sync ON with 141 fps cap? It is mentioned to turn off triple buffering in-game but not specified in NVCP. Does it even matter?

Keep NVCP triple buffer disabled with G-SYNC. It primarily applies to OpenGL games, but there is the rare DirectX game that it will apply to as well.

Otherwise, the G-SYNC + V-SYNC "On" (NVCP) + -3 FPS limit is still the optimal setup, and has as low as input lag as you're going to get with a syncing method and fluctuating framerates. Alternately, you could set the RTSS limit to your minimum framerate for less jarring fluctuations in PUBG (the fluctuations don't personally bother me in that game though), up to you.
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 03 Oct 2017, 12:40

efflexthy wrote:For games like PUBG where framerates are unstable and fluctuate VERY often(e.g. Quite often fps drops to 60-80 when it sits at anywhere between 120-160 fps on other areas) what would be the ideal setting to use for lowest input lag possible? I'm currently using a 144 hz monitor.

For lag-critical purposes, we now recommend a 240Hz monitor even if your framerates fluctuate 100-150fps. It improves both absolute lag & lag randomness (jittering of lag caused by refresh cycle granularity) -- Jorim measured this effect during our 240 Hz G-SYNC tests.

1. Get high Hz. 240Hz gets you the fastest refresh-cycle scanout you can get in mainstream monitors. 80fps@240Hz has less input lag than 80fps@144Hz, no matter what sync method you choose (VSYNC OFF versus Fast Sync versus G-SYNC).

2. Have optional VRR handy. We found 240Hz G-SYNC avoids a lot of the input-lag concerns of lower-Hz VRR (see versus chart).

Many eSports players have had concerns about G-SYNC due to certain lag side effects. But that practically disappears when the refresh rate is 240Hz. When you're running very framerate-fluctuating games like PUBG, several competitive players find 240Hz G-SYNC aiming is just as good as VSYNC OFF -- and you don't have stutters/tearing. If you'd like to aim without those distractions, it's a worthwhile optional feature (GSYNC/FreeSync can be turned on/off) to have, even in competitive gameplay. The high max Hz means you have less lag-variance effects.
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Postby kurtextrem » 04 Oct 2017, 03:34

Wait, what? How does that work regarding G-Sync as the refresh rate and the low fps are in sync?
So 180 Hz should be better than 160 Hz (on an Asus PG248Q) - if yes, how much? (I ask because colors/contrast is degraded at such 'overclock')
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 04 Oct 2017, 11:00

kurtextrem wrote:Wait, what? How does that work regarding G-Sync as the refresh rate and the low fps are in sync?

First, let's make a distinction of the types of stutters -- regular stutter and erratic stutters.

Regarding regular stutter of ultra low frame rates: You will still see "regular stutter" with "perfect 15fps at 15Hz" or "perfect 20fps at 20Hz" -- it will still be like stop-motion because the frequency is extremely low, everything looks choppy but the times between the chops aren't erratic. This is still stuttery looking, simply because it's so low.

Regarding frame drops and erratic stutters: GSYNC and FreeSync can make those completely invisible to the human eye, as long as refresh visibility times are in sync (photons hitting eyes) are exactly in sync with gametime/frametimes. Erratic frame rates will look stutterfree above roughly around ~30-40Hz, and the single frame "frame-drops" will become invisible. This is because your eyes are in the correct place at the correct time, when you track moving objects. Fully synchronous erraticness (erratic gametime can be stutterfree if it's in sync with photons hitting the human eyes).

You will, however, see very subtle minor variability in motion blur instead of stutter -- motion blur (from eye-tracking persistence) of a sample-and-hold display is linearly proportional to frame visibility time. Random changes from 80fps->100fps->80fps->100fps will appear as approximately 20% change to motion blur trail length. This is very subtle compared to stutter on a non-VRR display.

Image

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During VRR framerate is always the refreshrate, no matter how random the framerate is. You can have 100 random frame times per second with no stutter, as long as it's perfectly synchronized erraticness between gametime & the visibility of the refresh cycle (seen by human eyes). During VRR, the monitor will refresh in sync with gametime -- the software is commanding the asynchronous refresh cycle, and the refresh rate can change more than 100 times a second, every single frame.

(From an older Blur Busters article)

Animation of changing-framerates that stay stutter free: Simulated animation demo of GSYNC/FreeSync -- it demonstrates that you can make frame rate changes completely stutter-free. (Note: view this in a stutterfree web browser, however, for an accurate animation -- make sure you're not running background apps, and close all your other browser window/stabs)

Motion-blur-wise, 100fps->80fps->100fps->80fps->100fps will look approximately like perfect 90fps@90Hz -- it just averages out really well. G-SYNC can give you the "permanent frame-drop-free VSYNC ON look" (But without the lag) during fluctuating frame rates.

And if you're also concerned about lag (and want to get practically as good as VSYNC OFF but without stutters/tearing) -- then consider 240Hz VRR. This reduces input lag even further -- GSYNC 100fps@240Hz is lower lag than GSYNC 100fps@144Hz -- thanks to faster refresh-cycle scanout (the frame is refreshed quicker onto the screen).

Single frame drops & light random stutters are practically invisible to human eyes during VRR operation
As long as the stuttering frequency (random vibrations) is beyond flicker fusion threshold, stays in sync with gametime, then the random stutter (edge vibrations) simply blur into plain variable motion blur, rather than very jarring jumpy-stop-motion stutter. The higher the frame rate, the more the random stutter blends invisibly via GSYNC/FreeSync. At least until you have a large stutter (disk loading, game engine flaw, etc) that creates a major divergence of gametime away from refresh cycle visibility time -- usually a 1/15sec freeze or longer, or multi-frame-drop -- then THAT stutter will easily be visible despite GSYNC or FreeSync. However, a single framedrop during 100fps is rendered practically invisible during G-SYNC/FreeSync -- and random fluctuations (80fps->99fps->71fps->100fps->84fs->etc) many times a second -- is visually stutterless as long as (random) gametime is perfectly in sync with refresh cycle visibility times.

Sure, you will notice a stutter when GSYNC 70fps->30fps->70fps, but it will be far more subtle, and less jarring than non-G-SYNC. But you won't notice any erratic stutters during 60fps->65->55->70->50->66->53->60fps ... That small erraticness blends and just looks like perfect smooth 60fps@60Hz VSYNC ON (but without the VSYNC ON input lag).

Some game engines just don't like to co-operate well with VRR, but many do very well, and people who are sensitive to stutters find G-SYNC or FreeSync the best thing since sliced bread. But for others who don't care about stutters, there are other things (e.g. IPS color) that are more important to them. It all depends on how important eliminating stutter is to you.

If you love "perfect full frame rate VSYNC ON fluidity" -- but without the lag-disadvantages -- and works even with fluctuating frame rates -- then a G-SYNC monitor or a FreeSync monitor can be just what the doctor ordered, and the highest Hz you can get if reducing input lag is important to you.

If you play only CS:GO and need ultra-high framerates (e.g. 500fps) then you may prefer VSYNC OFF. But if you're playing tons of PUBG, then 240Hz G-SYNC is quite eSports-friendly for that particular game. Also, many competitive gamers also play other games too, so one has the option to switch between G-SYNC and VSYNC OFF modes. Hitting the G-SYNC max-Hz limit was more of an eSports/professional handicap at 120Hz or 144Hz, but at 240Hz, this is far less of an issue, and there are also other eSports games that don't reach 240fps. As the Hz keeps increasing, the use of VRR in eSports is probably going to increase (especially as high-Hz becomes more widespread -- imagine a 480 Hz VRR monitor, for example).
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Postby Haste » 30 Dec 2017, 07:51

Someone linked the article in /r/pcgaming today:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comme ... h=0a6e05f7
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Postby lexlazootin » 30 Dec 2017, 11:07

I'm happy and i feel like people are finally starting to understand G-Sync. It did take years to get here but better late then never i guess...
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Postby jorimt » 30 Dec 2017, 11:10

Thanks for the heads up @Haste! Glad to hear people are continuing to glean from it.
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 30 Dec 2017, 16:11

Haste wrote:Someone linked the article in /r/pcgaming today:

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comme ... h=0a6e05f7

Thanks for the heads up too!

This has finally been a good test of the new dedicated Blur Busters server (initially troublesome, but now purring). Glad I upgraded just on time, though I don't miss the allnighter. LOL.

Multiple redditings in one week! 1500 upvotes totalled on all of these, together. Including the reddit shares of the new article, Blur Busters Law: The Amazing Journey To Future 1000Hz Monitors (2017 traffic record, bigger than the 480Hz test) as well as reshares of previous articles most of the public haven't read yet, especially Jorim's great G-SYNC 101.
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Postby KKNDT » 29 Jan 2018, 08:59

This is the best review of G-SYNC I have ever read. Great job by Blur Blusters !!!

One question: Why does G-SYNC have more lantency than V-SYNC OFF even within G-SYNC's range, especially running at lower refresh rate?
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Postby Sparky » 29 Jan 2018, 12:34

KKNDT wrote:This is the best review of G-SYNC I have ever read. Great job by Blur Blusters !!!

One question: Why does G-SYNC have more lantency than V-SYNC OFF even within G-SYNC's range, especially running at lower refresh rate?

Possibly because it's a 240hz monitor being run at 60hz, so there may be frame doubling happening. IIRC there really isn't any appreciable difference at 238fps//240hz.
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