Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Talk about NVIDIA G-SYNC, a variable refresh rate (VRR) technology. G-SYNC eliminates stutters, tearing, and reduces input lag. List of G-SYNC Monitors.
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 28 Feb 2018, 13:27

xenphor wrote:I've been looking at gsync for a long time because I can't stand tearing or stuttering. I have a few questions:

1. Am I right in thinking that gsync could be useful when paired with a low end video card such as a 1050ti that I have? I would be more than happy if I could get a fluid, stable image, even at a low frame rate. That way I don't have to worry about keeping up with increasingly more expensive gpu hardware.

2. If true, how low can the framerate go and still receive the benefits of gsync? I see in the article that there is an operating range, but what is it like in practice? I would expect to see sub 30 fps frame rates on a lower end card in high end games which I am fine with, as long as the frames are presented uniformly, without tearing.

3. Even though I would be mostly dealing with fps in the ~30 range, I don't think I have a choice but to also buy a monitor with a high refresh rate because that's how gsync is being sold. How would I set that up knowing that I would most likely never approach the 100+ fps range in high end games that those monitors support? Should I buy a 120hz+ monitor but set the refresh rate to 60hz or does it matter?

3. What are peoples' opinions on freesync? Since I already have a 1050 ti I would not use it, but just curious.
1. GSYNC benefits older cards, even back to the 700 series. You should still upgrade eventually but you can delay your GPU upgrade, given the mining craze is making it hard at the moment to buy good GPUs for cheap.

2. There's not necessarily lower limit. Low Frame Rate compensation algorithms helps. You still have the low-framerate stutter but the stutter is regular (perfect frame pacing) rather than erratic. Close all apps/browser windows and run one stutterfree browser window on the simulated GSYNC animated demonstration at www.testufo.com/gsync and watch it ramp downwards to 30 frames per second to understand what I mean. Try Slow Ramp, Fast Ramp, Slow Random, Fast Random, and Struggle At Max.

3. High-Hz GSYNC monitors have lower lag. 30fps @ 144Hz has much less lag than 30fps @ 60Hz. You will benefit anyway. This is because the screen is refreshed-out faster (1/144sec frame scanout) so the pixels appears to your eyes quicker. That said, stutter reduction benefits are a little less, however, you'll have the full enjoyment of framerate smoothly fluctuating from 30 to 50 frames per second.

Although GSYNC has a 30fps/30Hz bottom range, there are already low-framerate compensation algorithms in it -- that works all the way down to approximately 1 frame per second. Refresh cycles are repeated automatically below 30fps (with refresh cycle repeats doing a best-effort avoidance of the frame interval times, to avoid delaying subsequent frames near the 30fps threshold) in a way not too dissimilar from AMD's Low Framerate Compensation.

And sometimes, you might play certain games that run at really high framerates -- The classic Half Life and Bioshock games still runs at over 100 frames per second on a GTX 1050 Ti -- and you'll love the benefits. Which will prompt you to later upgrade your graphics cards once they come out with the GTX 1100 or 1200 series, and used better graphics finally become affordable. Long before you need to upgrade your monitor.

Right now, given the bitcoin mining craze, your 1050 Ti is sufficiently fast enough that you'll gain more benefits from buying one of the cheaper GSYNC monitors than spending a fortune on an overpriced 1080+ card. I am hoping graphics cards will settle better soon, but you're right at the threshold where today I'd go GSYNC first before doing the graphics card upgrade.
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by xenphor » 28 Feb 2018, 14:16

Thanks for the response.

How does freesync compare to all of this? I'm guessing it will soon be the dominate solution simply because it is free, even if the implementation may not be as good? Kind of like how android being open source took over even though iphones had some advantages. I don't suppose developers would ever eventually design their games to be more compatible with one solution over the other, if that is even possible?

edit: It might be nice if nvidia could add a target frame rate feature to gsync so I could just tell it to try and stay at 30fps no matter what is going on. For example, if I was playing a demanding game, I might get 30 fps in outdoor areas, but as soon as I go indoors the frame rate might jump to 60-100. In that case I'd rather it just remain at 30 fps. Not to mention even in older games I don't necessarily want to be maxing out my GPU on account of noise levels and heat.

I know you spoke of RTSS and using Nvidia inspector to manage caps, but having it closely tied with gsync would be a bit more user friendly, and I wouldn't have to worry about using 3rd party programs that are not tightly integrated and may break compatibility in the future. If I'm not mistaken, didn't RTSS have periods were it did not work with certain titles? Maybe not.

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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by RealNC » 28 Feb 2018, 18:16

xenphor wrote:How does freesync compare to all of this?
It does pretty much the exact same thing. Some monitors do not support freesync in the full refresh range though. But some do, in which case it works the same as gsync.
I'm guessing it will soon be the dominate solution simply because it is free
It's not supported by nvidia, so it can't dominate, really. AMD doesn't support gsync, NVidia doesn't support freesync. In a weird way, that means they cannot compete with each other, since you're locked-in to one or the other, depending on your GPU.
I don't suppose developers would ever eventually design their games to be more compatible with one solution over the other, if that is even possible?
Games don't target either one. Gsync and freesync work without needing support from games. (There's some very rare exceptions where a game might not work due to it doing something weird, but this is very rare.)
It might be nice if nvidia could add a target frame rate feature to gsync so I could just tell it to try and stay at 30fps no matter what is going on.
NVidia does have a frame limiter configurable through NVidia Profile Inspector. However, using the driver's frame limiter adds input lag. AFAIK, AMD's solution also has increased input lag.

To set a frame rate limit in games that don't have a built-in limiter, use RTSS. This is even more important with lower frame rates like 30FPS. The input lag added by the driver frame limiter is much worse. In fact, at low frame rates, RTSS lowers input lag compared to running uncapped by a good margin. It's highly recommended.
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by xenphor » 28 Feb 2018, 21:41

What would I do if/when RTSS is no longer actively developed though? As far as I'm aware it's not developed by Nvidia? I suppose I could use Nvidia Inspector but as you said it has added latency. Also, FPS limiters provided by the games themselves sometimes don't function properly or are not available at all. I suppose I'm being a little unreasonable, but if I'm looking at gsync as a long term investment then having some software to go along with it that I know will be supported is important.

I'm sure most people who buy a gsync/high refresh monitor want to get the most FPS possible no matter what so their use cases will most likely be considered first when software is developed.

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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by RealNC » 01 Mar 2018, 03:40

There's other FPS limiters out there that work in the same way as RTSS, or can be configured to work in the same way.

FPS limiters will always be around. It's like fearing that one day there won't be any browsers anymore. Isn't gonna happen.
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 02 Mar 2018, 00:31

If RTSS dies, we'll try to find a way to opensource a framerate limiter -- Blur Busters needs one.

It's one of the top 10 tweaking software of Blur Busters including utilities like CRU, StrobeLight, RTSS, etc.

Ideally NVIDIA should eventually gain some lower-lag frame rate capping capability -- since RTSS capping is lower lag than NVInspector capping -- and it would be neat if there are NVAPI calls for adjusting frame rate capping.
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by xenphor » 02 Mar 2018, 00:43

Cool, sorry one more question.

How does gsync work on Windows 10 on older d3d games? To my knowledge, Windows 10 does not really natively support anything below d3d9 anymore and runs everything lower than that in a borderless Window mode.

For example, I was not able to get Unreal Tournament 2004 to vsync in d3d mode, no matter if I used the in game vsync or the nvidia control panel. Running a "stat fps" command in game would show the fps still sky high and not locked to my refresh rate at 60. Opengl mode on the other hand, did vsync correctly using both the in game vsync and the nvidia control panel as expected.

I think this may also affect the way the Nvidia frame limiter works as well, although there you could use RTSS I suppose. I didn't try it because I switched to using Windows 7 instead where I can vsync properly in d3d.

I know in the article it says that gsync will work with borderless Window applications but the games tested were all fairly recent titles.

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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by lexlazootin » 02 Mar 2018, 01:10

I've ran HL and Unreal both in G-Sync and V-Sync mode with no issue. I'm running the latest windows 10.

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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by xenphor » 04 Mar 2018, 12:51

Sorry, another question, more to do with high refresh rate monitors.

I recently was able to test a high refresh rate 144hz monitor for the first time at Best Buy and did notice quite a difference. However, I was worried that the 144hz refresh rate of the monitor would conflict with content that does not evenly divide into that refresh rate, such as 60fps videos on youtube. Sure enough, if I played a 60fps video on youtube I noticed a constant stuttering that I did not notice if I changed the rate to 120 or 60.

So I'm confused as to why monitor manufacturers have chosen 144 or even 165 and other oddball refresh rates for their monitors instead of rates that can evenly be divided by the long standing 60hz, such as 120hz, which was the standard for awhile.

Since 144hz seems to be the most common these days, I would feel stupid for buying one and then setting it at 120 for the rest of its life to avoid the stuttering that happens in content with locked fps. The only other option I see is going up to 240hz which I definitely wouldn't need, if only for the fact that 60 would divide evenly into it.

Am I not understanding something correctly or could gsync help with this problem? I know in the article it stated that it can be used on the desktop with focused windowed applications but sometimes that is overridden or something?

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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by RealNC » 04 Mar 2018, 15:34

This is why I recommend 120Hz for the desktop, and 144Hz for games. This is very easy to make automatic. Simply set the refresh rate to 120Hz in the nvidia control panel, but in the 3D settings, choose "maximum available". When you start a game, it will switch to 144 (or whatever the highest is). When you quit the game (or just alt+tab to the desktop) it switches to 120Hz.
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