Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Talk about NVIDIA G-SYNC, a variable refresh rate (VRR) technology. G-SYNC eliminates stutters, tearing, and reduces input lag. List of G-SYNC Monitors.
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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 20 Jun 2017, 15:25

You noticed the slowdown too, eh?
Might be time for me to ask for a bigger web hosting allocation.

I noticed NeoGaf is also discussing the article too. Lots of high praise for Jorim's work!
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=241357539
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by jorimt » 20 Jun 2017, 17:16

Glide wrote:
jorimt wrote:I'm glad I did include it, but I could not replicate that behavior. It would be interesting to know more details about your system specs, driver versions, OS version and settings though.
Not sure there's much to tell. Ryzen 1700X paired with a GTX 1070, display is a PG348Q.
It was a clean install of the Win10 CU, and everything is up to date. Windows, NVIDIA drivers (382.53) etc.
Not running a preview build of the OS, just the standard Win10 Pro.
What are the specific settings that allow it to tear in borderless or windowed for you? Do you have Overwatch, and if so, can/did you test in it?

1. Is G-SYNC in fullscreen or borderless/windowed mode in the control panel?
2. Is Game Mode enabled in both the Windows Settings and in-game via the Game Bar?
3. I assume fullscreen optimizations is enabled in the game exe?
4. Is in-game V-SYNC enabled or disabled?

Not that it would have made a difference to my existing results (I was experiencing standard DWM borderless/windowed behavior, and G-SYNC still didn't add any latency), but I would like to see if I can replicate.
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by RealNC » 20 Jun 2017, 18:10

I'm not on W10CU, but if I use g-sync in windowed mode, the nvidia driver forces vsync. Even if I set it to off in the nvcp, all games seem to get vsynced and can not exceed 144FPS. In fact, they cannot exceed 143FPS... Usually they max out at 142.4FPS or so. Not sure why. As soon as I disable g-sync windowed mode, they get to 500FPS+.

(Vsync is disabled both in-game as well as in the nvcp.)
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by Glide » 20 Jun 2017, 18:19

jorimt wrote:Specific settings that allow it to tear in borderless or windowed? Do you have Overwatch, and if so, can/did you test in it?

1. Is G-SYNC in fullscreen or borderless/windowed mode in the control panel?
2. Is Game Mode enabled in both the Windows Settings and in-game via the Game Bar?
3. I assume fullscreen optimizations is enabled in the game exe?
4. Is in-game V-SYNC enabled or disabled?

Not that it would have made a difference to my existing results (I was experiencing standard DWM borderless/windowed behavior, and G-SYNC still didn't add any latency), but I would like to see if I can replicate.
I don't have Overwatch to test, sorry. I've been locked out of my Blizzard account for years after their 2FA recovery failed.

1. I had been testing with G-Sync disabled, since I was only checking for tearing in Borderless Windowed Mode.

I've now done some thorough testing with Dishonored 2.
Basically, in all configurations of G-Sync (off, fullscreen only, fullscreen + windowed), it can tear if V-Sync is disabled and the framerate is above the refresh rate when the fullscreen optimizations are enabled.
If I disable fullscreen optimizations BWM will not tear.

I thought it was interesting that, when G-Sync was set to fullscreen only, G-Sync is still active in borderless windowed mode when the framerate is below the maximum refresh rate and fullscreen optimizations are enabled.
If I disable the fullscreen optimizations, G-Sync is not active when set to fullscreen only and the monitor's refresh rate counter is locked to 100 in borderless windowed mode. I have to set it to fullscreen + windowed for it to work, as you would expect.
So as far as G-Sync seems to be concerned, it is running in "true" fullscreen mode.


2. Tried with Game Mode off, Game Mode on but not enabled, and Game Mode on and enabled. Doesn't make a difference.
Only the "disable fullscreen optimizations" compatibility mode affects this.

3. Yes. This is enabled by default for all games on the list. You have to go out of your way if you want to disable it.

4. In-game V-Sync disabled.

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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by jorimt » 20 Jun 2017, 21:53

Thanks for the details Glide, I will attempt those scenarios in that game, see if I can replicate, and post the results in a reply here when I get the time.
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by Glide » 21 Jun 2017, 08:53

Oh, something else I forgot to mention:
You say that it's always best to disable V-Sync in games, using NVCP V-Sync instead, and while that's generally true there can be some exceptions to that.

Some games have framerate limiters in place for whatever reason, even though they may not be required.
And bizarrely, enabling V-Sync when using a G-Sync display allows you to bypass that framerate limit.

What I think is happening is that the developers assume that when you enable V-Sync, it's going to cap the game to 60 FPS anyway, so they remove the framerate limiter.
But since G-Sync does not behave like standard V-Sync, this actually unlocks the framerate.

Infinifactory and Dishonored 2 are both games that applies to.
I haven't really tested Dishonored 2 much beyond 120 FPS, since my monitor is limited to 100Hz and that game has issues if you go beyond 60 FPS anyway, but I haven't encountered any issues running Infinifactory at 97 FPS instead of 60.
I've encountered a handful of other games this has applied to as well, though I can't think of any other specific examples off the top of my head.

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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by RealNC » 21 Jun 2017, 09:21

Dishonored 2 is capped at 120FPS (not 60) to prevent physics issues:

http://steamcommunity.com/games/403640/ ... 8913276060

Some games will indeed disable the cap if vsync is enabled. Games that cap to 60 are the result of game developers not considering higher-than-60Hz monitors as something that exists. The majority of developers don't actually use high refresh rate monitors and consider them extremely rare novelties nobody uses. Also, the human eye cannot perceive any difference whatsoever between 60FPS@60Hz and 120FPS@120Hz :roll:

Enabling vsync in-game is sometimes the only way to bypass the 60FPS cap.

I wonder if these "game development universities and colleges" that became popular in recent years actually even teach that stuff. I assume they have a "cinematic 24FPS 101" class only.

/rant_mode off
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by jorimt » 21 Jun 2017, 09:51

Glide wrote:Oh, something else I forgot to mention:
You say that it's always best to disable V-Sync in games, using NVCP V-Sync instead, and while that's generally true there can be some exceptions to that.
I suppose you missed this section in the article?
Nvidia Control Panel V-SYNC vs. In-game V-SYNC

While NVCP V-SYNC has no input lag reduction over in-game V-SYNC, and when used with G-SYNC + FPS limit, it will never engage, some in-game V-SYNC solutions may introduce their own frame buffer or frame pacing behaviors, enable triple buffer V-SYNC automatically (not optimal for the native double buffer of G-SYNC), or simply not function at all, and, thus, NVCP V-SYNC is the safest bet.

There are rare occasions, however, where V-SYNC will only function with the in-game option enabled, so if tearing or other anomalous behavior is observed with NVCP V-SYNC (or visa-versa), each solution should be tried until said behavior is resolved.
I believe that covers it.
Glide wrote:Some games have framerate limiters in place for whatever reason, even though they may not be required.
And bizarrely, enabling V-Sync when using a G-Sync display allows you to bypass that framerate limit.

What I think is happening is that the developers assume that when you enable V-Sync, it's going to cap the game to 60 FPS anyway, so they remove the framerate limiter.
But since G-Sync does not behave like standard V-Sync, this actually unlocks the framerate.
For Dishonored 2, you can disable in-game V-SYNC, enabled it in the control panel, and leave the in-game framerate limiter on. This should work as intended.

I do this with the 60 fps in-game limit, and it works fine. Even after the latest patch, however, Dishonored 2 does not play nice with anything over 60 fps, and begins to outright repeat or drop frames.
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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by Glide » 21 Jun 2017, 10:50

jorimt wrote:For Dishonored 2, you can disable in-game V-SYNC, enabled it in the control panel, and leave the in-game framerate limiter on. This should work as intended.
Right, but if you enable V-Sync in Dishonored 2, you can break past the 120 FPS limit.
Now that's maybe not the best example because Dishonored 2 has issues at anything above 60 FPS, but I mentioned it because it's a game you also seem to have.

Infinifactory in-game V-Sync OFF - capped to 60 FPS:
Image

Infinifactory in-game V-Sync ON - framerate is unlocked, then capped to 97 FPS via RTSS:
Image


Dishonored 2 in-game V-Sync OFF - maximum framerate possible is 120 FPS:
Image

Dishonored 2 in-game V-Sync ON - framerate limiter is removed:
Image
EDIT: Ignore that frame-time number, RTSS was set to display the maximum frame-time in a 1000ms period.

This seems to be a quirk of how V-Sync is handled by G-Sync displays, as simply forcing V-Sync off in the NVCP and enabling it in-game did not have this effect with my previous non-G-Sync 60Hz display.

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Re: Blur Buster's G-SYNC 101 Series Discussion

Post by RealNC » 21 Jun 2017, 11:03

Out of curiosity, does the same happen if you set vsync to on in nvcp? Does then toggling in-game vsync off/on result in the FPS lock/unlock?

Also, have you tested without g-sync? Disable g-sync, run in 144Hz mode. Does enabling in-game vsync do the same thing?
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