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[Rocket League] Need tips for best setup with ASUS PG258Q

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[Rocket League] Need tips for best setup with ASUS PG258Q

Postby Melander86 » 07 Mar 2018, 11:51

Hey blurbusters

First of all, ive been browsing this forum for a couple of days. Its a whole new language for me, all of it almost.

Long story short: Im a competetive rocket league gamer (top 500 worldwide). My question is as follows. With which settings do I get the lowest possible input lag? (Yes ive read the Gsync v101 article. But im not sure if I have done it right.

My setup is as follows:

ASUS pg258q 240hz
i5 7600
GTX 1070
8gb ram
Able to pull an average of around 300 FPS in the game (270 as the lowest, around 340 as the highest)

So... onwards to my questions:
- According to the Gsync 101 article I will have to go with Gsync + Vsync and limit the frames around 235 right?
- I cant seem to find the enable Vsync in NVCP, I only have the options of 1,2,3,4 or use ingame settings. So far I have enables vsync in the game itself, it that ok?
- If ive gotten it right I need to be pulling around 2xthe amount of my screens hz (500), to justify to take off both Gsync and Vsync?

What would be the best solution for me?
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[Rocket League] Re: Need tips for best setup with ASUS PG258

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 07 Mar 2018, 12:14

Hello!
Welcome to Blur Busters Forums!

If you're indeed a top 500 player, you're already in the rareified leagues -- and already for some paid competitions!

If so, you are probably currently using VSYNC OFF at the moment. For situations where games always runs at framerates above refresh rates, you may find that you prefer VSYNC OFF over GSYNC. GSYNC really helps, but you're running such super-consistent framerates (270fps-340fps) in a tight range already above refresh rate.

Normally, this can potentially warrant the use of VSYNC OFF when you're playing twitch games like CS:GO. However, Rocket League is a totally different animal -- your eyes are always moving around instead of staring at a crosshairs -- so stutter reduction is more important in Rocket League than in CS:GO.

It's tough to decide what tool is the right tool for your particular job.
For example, several options available on 240Hz GSYNC monitors:

(A) Continue using VSYNC OFF
Cons:
- Minor microstutters/tearing that might throw off your motion skills
- Some lag jittering effects (bigger "MIN"/"MAX" lag range)
Pros:
- Lowest possible "MIN" lag
- The current eSports gold standard, most on-site systems are configured to this.
Best For: Crosshairs-based games. Lowest possible input lag in games that consistently always run above refresh rate, if you don't mind microstutter or tearing.

(B) Use capped GSYNC
Pros:
- Lowest possible input lag for a 100% tearing-free and stutter-free situation
Cons:
- Higher "MIN" lag for screen middle and bottom.
Best For: Games where stutters/tearing distracts you from your game. Aiming/scoring can improve in certain games.

(C) Use the simultaneous ULMB+GSYNC hack + 141fps cap
Cons:
- More input lag than GSYNC or VSYNC OFF (despite being the lowest possible 100%-stutter-free strobe lag)
- Refresh rate reduction to 144Hz (since 240Hz GSYNC monitors only does 144Hz ULMB)
- Very nasty flicker during framerate fluctuations.
- Not user friendly. Inconvenient.
Pros:
- Less input lag than ULMB + VSYNC ON, while microstutter free.
- Eliminates strobe-amplified microstutter. Silk-smooth and blurfree!
- Eliminates motion blur for non-crosshair-games
Best For: Games that run in triple-digit frame rates, where you absolutely need 100% stutter-free motion blur reduction.

(D) Use ULMB + VSYNC OFF
Cons:
- More input lag than GSYNC or VSYNC OFF.
- Amplifies microstutter
- Has lag gradient effects (top-edge aimfeel feels different from bottom-edge aimfeel)
- Refresh rate reduction to 144Hz
Pros:
- Lowest possible strobe lag
- Eliminates motion blur completely
Best For: Ultra high framerates where you absolutely need strobing at the absolute lowest possible input lag, cons be damned

(E) Use ULMB + VSYNC ON
Cons:
- Highest input lag of all the above.
- You may need to lower refresh rate to eliminate stutters (e.g. 100fps @ 100Hz ULMB)
Pros:
- Eliminates motion blur completely
- Eliminates stutter completely (if framerates stay permanently maxed-out)
- Zero lag gradient effects along display surface. Whole screen has exactly identical, symmetric input lag.
Best For: Recreational gameplay where you want maximum motion quality in stutterfree silksmooth zero-blur heaven

Most eSports players do not use ULMB, but the toolchest can still contain ULMB for certain kinds of games that super-forces you to move your eyes around (e.g. games without crosshairs, that contains lots of camoflaged moving objects). See HOWTO: Using ULMB Competitively.

If you're playing Rocket League that has a custom, heavily camoflaged ball that gets lost in backgrounds, the use of ULMB can regain certain kinds of competitive advantages despite the increased lag of ULMB -- but it depends on how good a player you are.

A Top500 player tends to have enough skills to not need ULMB for most situations, but your mileage may vary -- moving camoflaged objects in moving camoflaged backgrounds is what ULMB is perfect (for compensating its own input lag for) but it doesn't help stationary-gaze situations (e.g. stare-at-crosshairs), so ULMB is less useful for CS:GO eSports players that uses the fixed-gaze tactics.

Certainly, single-milliseconds tend to do matter to Top500 players, so it's quite useful to shave them off, albiet at least with understanding the tradeoffs (e.g. does shaving the milliseconds cause other side effects like adding stutter/blur/etc?)

Also, if you go to in-person competitions that has sponsored monitors, I have noticed that they often don't allow you to bring your monitor. Train on equipment that is configured similarly to the on-site sponsored monitors. They will usually not allow you to install third party utilities (e.g. RTSS, etc).

Since a configuration change (e.g. new monitor, new computer, new settings) can throw things off that needs an 'adjustment period' / 'acclimation period' (to get used to the new aimfeel/mechanics, stutter change, lag change, etc). Changes in feel throws off your game for a momentary period until you're used to it again. So if that's a consideration (you going to competitions), then just continue using VSYNC OFF since that's likely the most similar to the configuration at the in-person gaming tournaments.

I simply include this extra information since you professed to be a Top500 player, so this is essential extra information for Top500 players.

However, if "training similar to a mandatory sponsored monitor at compeitions" does not affect you, then definitely, you have a lot more flexibility for The Right Tool For The Right Job... :D The smart players know how to use the right tool for the right job. The decision of what you use, is your choice.
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Re: [Rocket League] Need tips for best setup with ASUS PG258

Postby RealNC » 07 Mar 2018, 12:34

I'd like to point out that Rocket League is not a latency-sensitive game, so you might as well configure the system for the most fun, which is:

Use 240Hz.
Cap FPS to 237.
Enable gsync.
Enable vsync in nvidia panel.
Disable vsync in-game.

But since it's gsync and you use a frame cap, latency is going to be low anyway with this, even compared to 300FPS uncapped. In general, when using gsync and capping your FPS, latency is going to be extremely low if the game never falls below the cap. Which in your case is always guaranteed.

Rocket League has an in-game limiter that allows to set a cap of up to 250FPS, so in this case, you set it to 237FPS. This should pretty much give you virtually no additional latency compared to 300FPS.
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Re: [Rocket League] Need tips for best setup with ASUS PG258

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 07 Mar 2018, 12:41

RealNC is right here - Rocket League is not as lag-sensitive as CS:GO.
In fact, lag consistency (unvarying lag) is more important than absolute lag in Rocket League.

Yes, if you became a Top500 purely for fun, without doing it professionally, good for you!
Yes, use an in-game cap for Rocket League. That's lower-lag than using external frame rate capping.

Perhaps:
Use Option (A) VSYNC OFF if you find you score better with that (or training for on-site eSports matches)
Use Option (B) GSYNC capped if you like smoothness/stutterfree/tearfree with minimum possible effects on lag.
Use Option (C) ULMB+GSYNC hack if you want Option (B) without motion blur (minimum possible fully stutter-free strobe lag)
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors
User avatar
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Re: [Rocket League] Re: Need tips for best setup with ASUS P

Postby Melander86 » 07 Mar 2018, 13:18

Chief Blur Buster wrote:Hello!
Welcome to Blur Busters Forums!

If you're indeed a top 500 player, you're already in the rareified leagues -- and already for some paid competitions!

If so, you are probably currently using VSYNC OFF at the moment. For situations where games always runs at framerates above refresh rates, you may find that you prefer VSYNC OFF over GSYNC. GSYNC really helps, but you're running such super-consistent framerates (270fps-340fps) in a tight range already above refresh rate.

Normally, this can potentially warrant the use of VSYNC OFF when you're playing twitch games like CS:GO. However, Rocket League is a totally different animal -- your eyes are always moving around instead of staring at a crosshairs -- so stutter reduction is more important in Rocket League than in CS:GO.

It's tough to decide what tool is the right tool for your particular job.
For example, several options available on 240Hz GSYNC monitors:

(A) Continue using VSYNC OFF
Cons:
- Minor microstutters/tearing that might throw off your motion skills
- Some lag jittering effects (bigger "MIN"/"MAX" lag range)
Pros:
- Lowest possible "MIN" lag
- The current eSports gold standard, most on-site systems are configured to this.
Best For: Crosshairs-based games. Lowest possible input lag in games that consistently always run above refresh rate, if you don't mind microstutter or tearing.

(B) Use capped GSYNC
Pros:
- Lowest possible input lag for a 100% tearing-free and stutter-free situation
Cons:
- Higher "MIN" lag for screen middle and bottom.
Best For: Games where stutters/tearing distracts you from your game. Aiming/scoring can improve in certain games.

(C) Use the simultaneous ULMB+GSYNC hack + 141fps cap
Cons:
- More input lag than GSYNC or VSYNC OFF (despite being the lowest possible 100%-stutter-free strobe lag)
- Refresh rate reduction to 144Hz (since 240Hz GSYNC monitors only does 144Hz ULMB)
- Very nasty flicker during framerate fluctuations.
- Not user friendly. Inconvenient.
Pros:
- Less input lag than ULMB + VSYNC ON, while microstutter free.
- Eliminates strobe-amplified microstutter. Silk-smooth and blurfree!
- Eliminates motion blur for non-crosshair-games
Best For: Games that run in triple-digit frame rates, where you absolutely need 100% stutter-free motion blur reduction.

(D) Use ULMB + VSYNC OFF
Cons:
- More input lag than GSYNC or VSYNC OFF.
- Amplifies microstutter
- Has lag gradient effects (top-edge aimfeel feels different from bottom-edge aimfeel)
- Refresh rate reduction to 144Hz
Pros:
- Lowest possible strobe lag
- Eliminates motion blur completely
Best For: Ultra high framerates where you absolutely need strobing at the absolute lowest possible input lag, cons be damned

(E) Use ULMB + VSYNC ON
Cons:
- Highest input lag of all the above.
- You may need to lower refresh rate to eliminate stutters (e.g. 100fps @ 100Hz ULMB)
Pros:
- Eliminates motion blur completely
- Eliminates stutter completely (if framerates stay permanently maxed-out)
- Zero lag gradient effects along display surface. Whole screen has exactly identical, symmetric input lag.
Best For: Recreational gameplay where you want maximum motion quality in stutterfree silksmooth zero-blur heaven

Most eSports players do not use ULMB, but the toolchest can still contain ULMB for certain kinds of games that super-forces you to move your eyes around (e.g. games without crosshairs, that contains lots of camoflaged moving objects). See HOWTO: Using ULMB Competitively.

If you're playing Rocket League that has a custom, heavily camoflaged ball that gets lost in backgrounds, the use of ULMB can regain certain kinds of competitive advantages despite the increased lag of ULMB -- but it depends on how good a player you are.

A Top500 player tends to have enough skills to not need ULMB for most situations, but your mileage may vary -- moving camoflaged objects in moving camoflaged backgrounds is what ULMB is perfect (for compensating its own input lag for) but it doesn't help stationary-gaze situations (e.g. stare-at-crosshairs), so ULMB is less useful for CS:GO eSports players that uses the fixed-gaze tactics.

Certainly, single-milliseconds tend to do matter to Top500 players, so it's quite useful to shave them off, albiet at least with understanding the tradeoffs (e.g. does shaving the milliseconds cause other side effects like adding stutter/blur/etc?)

Also, if you go to in-person competitions that has sponsored monitors, I have noticed that they often don't allow you to bring your monitor. Train on equipment that is configured similarly to the on-site sponsored monitors. They will usually not allow you to install third party utilities (e.g. RTSS, etc).

Since a configuration change (e.g. new monitor, new computer, new settings) can throw things off that needs an 'adjustment period' / 'acclimation period' (to get used to the new aimfeel/mechanics, stutter change, lag change, etc). Changes in feel throws off your game for a momentary period until you're used to it again. So if that's a consideration (you going to competitions), then just continue using VSYNC OFF since that's likely the most similar to the configuration at the in-person gaming tournaments.

I simply include this extra information since you professed to be a Top500 player, so this is essential extra information for Top500 players.

However, if "training similar to a mandatory sponsored monitor at compeitions" does not affect you, then definitely, you have a lot more flexibility for The Right Tool For The Right Job... :D The smart players know how to use the right tool for the right job. The decision of what you use, is your choice.


Wow! Thanks for the very specific answer. To be honest. Im not sure what all these terms mean. Im not sure whether I stutter or experience strobing or whatnot.

Yes... I am top 500, but.. Only the top 50 players are making money playing the game. Im 32 years old, and a marketing manager at a software company. Totally ordinary guy. I wiil prolly never be able to compete with those 18-22 year olds dominating top 100 on the long run (Ive beaten most of them though) :) But.. Im playing averagely 3-4 hours a day (A total of aprox 4500 hours since launch), so its quite important for me that I have the best settings possible considering my hardware.

I do not experience that I have a hard time knowing where the ball is according to the surroundings. The most important thing is that there is no stutters and than whatever the amount of inputlag there is, it remains the same whenever I play.

What settings would you go with if you were in my shoes?
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Posts: 7
Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 10:33

Re: [Rocket League] Need tips for best setup with ASUS PG258

Postby Melander86 » 07 Mar 2018, 13:20

RealNC wrote:I'd like to point out that Rocket League is not a latency-sensitive game, so you might as well configure the system for the most fun, which is:

Use 240Hz.
Cap FPS to 237.
Enable gsync.
Enable vsync in nvidia panel.
Disable vsync in-game.

But since it's gsync and you use a frame cap, latency is going to be low anyway with this, even compared to 300FPS uncapped. In general, when using gsync and capping your FPS, latency is going to be extremely low if the game never falls below the cap. Which in your case is always guaranteed.

Rocket League has an in-game limiter that allows to set a cap of up to 250FPS, so in this case, you set it to 237FPS. This should pretty much give you virtually no additional latency compared to 300FPS.


Thank you for the answer. But.. I dont have per se to use Gsync. Would it be better to go no Gsync and no Vsync, capped or uncapped?
Melander86
 
Posts: 7
Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 10:33

Re: [Rocket League] Need tips for best setup with ASUS PG258

Postby Melander86 » 07 Mar 2018, 13:24

Chief Blur Buster wrote:RealNC is right here - Rocket League is not as lag-sensitive as CS:GO.
In fact, lag consistency (unvarying lag) is more important than absolute lag in Rocket League.

Yes, if you became a Top500 purely for fun, without doing it professionally, good for you!
Yes, use an in-game cap for Rocket League. That's lower-lag than using external frame rate capping.

Perhaps:
Use Option (A) VSYNC OFF if you find you score better with that (or training for on-site eSports matches)
Use Option (B) GSYNC capped if you like smoothness/stutterfree/tearfree with minimum possible effects on lag.
Use Option (C) ULMB+GSYNC hack if you want Option (B) without motion blur (minimum possible fully stutter-free strobe lag)


Well...Im not a professional. Very few people are professionals in RL as of now. But... I am in the top 0,02-0,03% or so.

Option (A) and option (B) are those I have been trying out. Is there any settings on the monitor itself that I need change/have in mind?
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Re: [Rocket League] Need tips for best setup with ASUS PG258

Postby RealNC » 07 Mar 2018, 13:29

Melander86 wrote:Thank you for the answer. But.. I dont have per se to use Gsync. Would it be better to go no Gsync and no Vsync, capped or uncapped?

As I said, gsync will give you the smoothest gameplay possible, without tearing, at virtually no latency cost. (Note that enabling vsync while using gsync does NOT enable vsync. The vsync setting means something different when gsync is active; it enables a function in the gsync module that handles "rogue" frames that would cause tearing.)

Sure, disabling gsync might give you somewhere between 1 and 3ms higher latency (and I'm probably being generous here, since capped 237FPS gsync has probably either the same latency as 300FPS uncapped or the difference is 1ms or lower,) but this is of no consequence to Rocket League. It might matter to some few, high-end Quake or Counter-Strike players. But for Rocket League, I'd say gsync is worth it simply due to how good the game runs with it. Perfect motion, no stutters, no tearing, no lag. So why not make use of the feature? You paid for it, after all :mrgreen:

Also, as Chief mentioned, ULMB might be worth a try anyway. You might actually prefer the clarity of motion of ULMB. It has more lag though, but again, you might actually prefer it; you never know!

All I'm saying here basically, is that Rocket League is not the game where shaving off every single millisecond you can get is actually important. Which I guess also means that your age doesn't matter at all. It's not a twitch-reactions game. Just because a teenager has a 30-60ms reaction advantage doesn't mean much in this game. And as a consequence, the 2ms differences of gsync vs no gsync, or ~4-5ms differences or ULMB vs no ULMB are most probably completely inconsequential.
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Re: [Rocket League] Need tips for best setup with ASUS PG258

Postby Melander86 » 07 Mar 2018, 13:40

RealNC wrote:
Melander86 wrote:Thank you for the answer. But.. I dont have per se to use Gsync. Would it be better to go no Gsync and no Vsync, capped or uncapped?

As I said, gsync will give you the smoothest gameplay possible, without tearing, at virtually no latency cost. (Note that enabling vsync while using gsync does NOT enable vsync. The vsync setting means something different when gsync is active; it enables a function in the gsync module that handles "rogue" frames that would cause tearing.)

Sure, disabling gsync might give you somewhere between 1 and 3ms higher latency (and I'm probably being generous here, since capped 237FPS gsync has probably either the same latency as 300FPS uncapped or the difference is 1ms or lower,) but this is of no consequence to Rocket League. It might matter to some few, high-end Quake or Counter-Strike players. But for Rocket League, I'd say gsync is worth it simply due to how good the game runs with it. Perfect motion, no stutters, no tearing, no lag. So why not make use of the feature? You paid for it, after all :mrgreen:

Also, as Chief mentioned, ULMB might be worth a try anyway. You might actually prefer the clarity of motion of ULMB. It has more lag though, but again, you might actually prefer it; you never know!

All I'm saying here basically, is that Rocket League is not the game where shaving off every single millisecond you can get is actually important.


Great answer. Thanks dude. I have been playing on 144hz with uncapped FPS for a long time, so guess it just takes some time to get used to.

But... ULMB only works up untii 120hz right? Im not sure I understand ULMB guide linked further up in this thread. I enable ULMB and where do I set my FPS cap?
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Re: [Rocket League] Need tips for best setup with ASUS PG258

Postby RealNC » 07 Mar 2018, 13:47

Many monitors only support 120Hz ULMB, that's correct. Some can do 144Hz too or higher. It depends on the monitor.

For ULMB, RTSS as the FPS limiter works best. In-game limiters are usually not accurate enough. The sub-1ms accuracy of RTSS is needed in order to use the "low-latency vsync" trick if you want to use vsync (gives the best results when using ULMB.)

The low latency vsync method is described here:

https://www.blurbusters.com/howto-low-lag-vsync-on/

I also have a post on Guru3D on this, showing how to configure RTSS to get a fractional FPS cap:

https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/the-t ... st-5380262

However, for just trying out ULMB to see if you actually like it, you don't need to do the above yet. If you end up not liking how ULMB looks at all, then there's no point in going through the above steps to figure out the exact cap you need and editing the RTSS config file.

If you use ULMB without vsync, then you don't need to do the above either. It's only useful for reducing vsync latency, and with vsync off, there's no vsync latency, obviously.
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