Gsync and stuttering - hitching with various monitors

[odi83]

Hi to all . For years now i am reading blurbusters community and i finally decided to join and post . Over the last few years i've switched various gsync monitors looking for good image quality . I tried between others acer z301c , dell 2716dg , dell 2417dg and now i have omen x 35 with the newest firmware updated ( overdrive bug fixed ) .
In all these monitors the same games ( rise of the tomb raider , middle earth , hellblade , the division ) and others that are third person and are played with a controller , if the framerate is variable the game stutters or hitches ( don't know which one is correct ) .
I've tried everything . Vsync on or off , fast sync , max prerendered frames , capping the framerate 2 - 3 frames below refresh rate etc.
It doesn't matter what i do , it's always the same . You rotate the camera and you can clearly see that while it is smooth there are hitches inside , spikes when the framerate is variable.
The only way to get rid of it is to cap with rivatuner at a framerate which the game will never drop below that . But then the purpose of Gsync negates a little bit . You still have a smoother game let's say at 50 fps than with traditional vsync , but it is still a low framerate .
I just don't understand why this is happening with gsync . I can even see it a little bit in the pendulum demo when i simulate 40 fps to 60 fps.
I also tried a gtx 980 ti and now i have a gtx 1080 ti and i can still see it happening with the same way . Is it me being more sensitive to these spikes , other people aren't bothered by it , what exactly is going on with gsync anyway ?

[Chief Blur Buster]

-- Does this only happens with the game pad?
-- Does the framerate hitches stop with a 1000 Hz mouse or keyboard?
-- Or is the hitching/stuttering happening regardless of control method?
-- How frequent is the hitching/stuttering?
-- Do you have an SSD and a large RAM to reduce/prevent disk-access hitches?
-- Any background apps?
-- What version of Windows are you running?
-- Any clean Windows install attempts?

GSYNC can solve a lot of stutter issues, keeping a random refresh rate in sync with a random frame rate. However, not all games successfully framepace very well. For example, stutters can still show through to GSYNC if the frametimes of frames are out-of-sync with the real-world frame render times. This is often game programming (e.g. game developers who have never tested on VRR), or highly variable frametimes, and/or things like disk access disrupting things.

[RealNC]

If you're referring to the overall stuttery/blurry overall when you fall from, say 100FPS to 50FPS, that's normal since that's just how 50FPS looks like compared to 100FPS. 50 or 60FPS is never going to look as smooth as 90FPS+.

VRR cannot make 55FPS look like 90FPS. What it does is make 55FPS look like it's running at 55Hz. On it's own, 55FPS@55Hz is not that smooth, and gsync can't change that fact. What it can do is avoid FPS/refresh mismatch stutter.

For example, in this gsync simulation:

https://www.testufo.com/gsync

even the top half of the image will be stuttery and blurry when FPS falls too low. But even though FPS is low, it avoids the "getting stuck" or "hiccup" effect that the bottom half, non-gsync part of the image exhibits.

However, if you see this happening with smaller fluctuations (for example dropping from 110FPS to 90FPS), then I don't know.

[odi83]

-- Does this only happens with the game pad?
-- Does the framerate hitches stop with a 1000 Hz mouse or keyboard?
-- Or is the hitching/stuttering happening regardless of control method?
-- How frequent is the hitching/stuttering?
-- Do you have an SSD and a large RAM to reduce/prevent disk-access hitches?
-- Any background apps?
-- What version of Windows are you running?
-- Any clean Windows install attempts?

GSYNC can solve a lot of stutter issues, keeping a random refresh rate in sync with a random frame rate. However, not all games successfully framepace very well. For example, stutters can still show through to GSYNC if the frametimes of frames are out-of-sync with the real-world frame render times. This is often game programming (e.g. game developers who have never tested on VRR), or highly variable frametimes, and/or things like disk access disrupting things.

Hi and thanks for your help. I am using windows 10 x64 with the latest updates. I have 16 gb of ddr4 and an evo m.2 nvme.
Before going any further and after a lot of tests tonight i thing that something is going on with my second non gsync monitor which i frequenly connect to the system and windows 10. Because i didn't have any more time to test my findings 100% i will come back tomorrow and post my experience.

[Chief Blur Buster]

Yes!

Non-surround Multimonitor (divergent Hz, divergent sync techniques) can sometimes interfere with frame pacing in applications and games, especially if you have applications on both. A side monitor running at a fixed-Hz often interferes with the frame pacing of many games, even if you only run the game in one screen.

Monitors in surround mode works much better (e.g. 3 GSYNC monitors perfectly synchronized) but if you're not running surround, then temporarily disable multimonitor when you launch a game.

So try temporarily disable multimonitor when you play a game in full screen mode. There are utilities (Display Fusion) that makes this process easy but for now, try manually disabling:
Right-click on Desktop -> Display Settings -> Select your non-GSYNC monitor -> Disconnect this Display

And launch a game, see if that improves your GSYNC frame pacing issues.

[odi83]

Yes!

Non-surround Multimonitor (divergent Hz, divergent sync techniques) can sometimes interfere with frame pacing in applications and games, especially if you have applications on both. A side monitor running at a fixed-Hz often interferes with the frame pacing of many games, even if you only run the game in one screen.

Monitors in surround mode works much better (e.g. 3 GSYNC monitors perfectly synchronized) but if you're not running surround, then temporarily disable multimonitor when you launch a game.

So try temporarily disable multimonitor when you play a game in full screen mode. There are utilities (Display Fusion) that makes this process easy but for now, try manually disabling:
Right-click on Desktop -> Display Settings -> Select your non-GSYNC monitor -> Disconnect this Display

And launch a game, see if that improves your GSYNC frame pacing issues.

I completely disconnected the non gsync monitor , restarted and the problem was still there. I then did a fresh driver installation wiping settings and i am 99% sure that the stuttering dissapeared.
I also have a suspicion that needs to be tested ,that if i reconect the monitor once more and then unplug it again the problem will reapear even if the second monitor is unpluged.
Can it be that a setting somewhere in the driver section that changes causing the stutter and the only way to go away is to freshly install drivers without never plugging a secondary monitor.

[odi83]

I also now recalling that months ago when i was dealing with the matter again , i had found threads in forums about gsync stuttering and dropping frames after a specific windows update in combination with second non gsync monitors or external monitors in gsync laptops.....

[Chief Blur Buster]

Can it be that a setting somewhere in the driver section that changes causing the stutter and the only way to go away is to freshly install drivers without never plugging a secondary monitor.

If your non-GSYNC monitor is ever a Primary monitor, it's not always enough to Disconnect -- sometimes you need to reboot.

Swap the Primary monitor to the GSYNC monitor, then reboot to clear the microstuttering.

Driver quirks are really annoying sometimes. e.g. NVIDIA non-GSYNC laptops connected to an external GSYNC monitors can be particularly problematic for this type of situation. The best way is to boot/reboot the computer while the lid is closed.

It's okay to have secondary monitors, you just have to make sure have a booted state whereupon, earlier during the same booted state, no non-GSYNC monitor was ever the primary monitor. If it happened, just reboot, and you're clear again. That seems to solve the problem for me, most of the time.

If you don't want to reboot -- then sometimes you can simply "reinitialize" by switching resolutions (Back and fourth) or turning OFF-then-ON the GSYNC, There may be other techniques of reinit (e.g. ToastyX's "restart64.exe" as part of CRU to reboot the GPU without rebooting Windows).

(I don't know if it's Microsoft's fault or NVIDIA's fault for the framepacing-failures caused by this.)

[odi83]

Playing all day today and testing various games . I am sure now that the problem was the second monitor . Now the only stutters i get are engine related . But as i said what i needed was not only to disconnect the second monitor but to clean install the drivers again . If there is no clean driver installation stutters persist....