gsync questions

Talk about NVIDIA G-SYNC, a variable refresh rate (VRR) technology. G-SYNC eliminates stutters, tearing, and reduces input lag. List of G-SYNC Monitors.
Abiak
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gsync questions

Post by Abiak » 02 Sep 2018, 13:06

(I'm waiting an answer from jorimt, if someone is interested, part 1 in the comments -> https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync ... -settings/ )

3.2.1) I’ll try to explain again: not all games support the highest avaible. If the game doesn’t support it, the game itself will control the refresh rate: I want to know if this is an option that you can see and change or if you can’t change it. Let’s say the game has a 120Hz refresh rate, can you see this option and set it to 144Hz?
3.2.2) If the highest avaible doesn’t work and the game has no refresh rate control, it will use the desktop refresh rate which is 144Hz, so highest avaible and desktop refresh rate are both 144Hz correct?
4) As I said in 3.2.2 they are both 144Hz.
8) Gsync+vsync+rtss vs nothing (no gsync, no vsync, no fps block), has “nothing” more lag?
13) I didn’t know that! So with RTSS limit 141 fps: I play 30-140 fps = no lag, I play 141 fps = 1 frame lag?
16.2) Can’t you do it with some software?
17) Technology monitor options: I can select G-sync, ULMB and fixed refresh, when you recommend the last 2?

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jorimt
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Re: gsync questions

Post by jorimt » 02 Sep 2018, 14:52

3.2.1) I’ll try to explain again: not all games support the highest avaible. If the game doesn’t support it, the game itself will control the refresh rate: I want to know if this is an option that you can see and change or if you can’t change it. Let’s say the game has a 120Hz refresh rate, can you see this option and set it to 144Hz?
It depends on the game, Abiak. Some games have a refresh rate selector, but some other games do not.

For games that do, like Overwatch, you can set it to "Application Controlled" in the Nvidia control panel instead of "Highest Available," and then control the refresh rate with the in-game drop down option.

Again, however, I'm not sure why you are so worried about this. For G-SYNC, you want "Highest Available" for the best G-SYNC performance with lowest lag. The lower the refresh rate, the higher the input lag.
3.2.2) If the highest avaible doesn’t work and the game has no refresh rate control, it will use the desktop refresh rate which is 144Hz, so highest avaible and desktop refresh rate are both 144Hz correct?
Very few games don't support "Highest Available." In fact, I can't think of any I have had this issue with myself.

"Highest Available" will use the max refresh rate of your display when possible. If your display is 144Hz, it will use 144Hz, if it is 240Hz, it will use 240Hz, and so on.

If you disable "Highest Available," the game will use the desktop's current refresh rate in most cases.

Again, I explained all of this very clearly in my article already, and it's not a setting you even need to worry about for a proper G-SYNC setup.
4) As I said in 3.2.2 they are both 144Hz.
Again, it's all relative to the max refresh rate of your monitor; "Highest Available" will use the max refresh rate of your display when possible. If your display is 144Hz, it will use 144Hz, if it is 240Hz, it will use 240Hz, and so on.
8) Gsync+vsync+rtss vs nothing (no gsync, no vsync, no fps block), has “nothing” more lag?
No Abiak, G-SYNC off + V-SYNC off + RTSS off will always have less lag than any other scenario, you will simply get lots of tearing, which is what G-SYNC fixes.

If you can't understand the input lag charts in my article, I don't know what else to tell you; they have the answers.
13) I didn’t know that! So with RTSS limit 141 fps: I play 30-140 fps = no lag, I play 141 fps = 1 frame lag?
RTSS is only active when the framerate is above the FPS limit you set it to, otherwise, it is doing nothing, and is like the framerate is uncapped until the framerate goes above your RTSS FPS limit again.
16.2) Can’t you do it with some software?
Not unless your mouse already came with the software to do that. If your mouse doesn't have a built-in 1000Hz mode, there is no easy way to activate it.
17) Technology monitor options: I can select G-sync, ULMB and fixed refresh, when you recommend the last 2?
When you don't want to use G-SYNC. Those two options don't work with G-SYNC.
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Abiak
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Re: gsync questions

Post by Abiak » 02 Sep 2018, 16:21

3.2.1) Let's suppose highest avaible doesn't work and the game has a refresh rate of 60Hz, I should notice it cause the vsync will lock fps at 60, correct?
3.2.2) Just to be sure: display refresh rate = desktop refresh rate?
8) I'm confused: before you said "RTSS framerate cap has LESS input lag than an uncapped framerate within the refresh rate." and then "RTSS off will always have less lag than any other scenario".
13.1) With "when the framerate is above the FPS limit" do you mean when I see 141 fps?
13.2) When I have 141 fps there is 1 frame lag, bad PC don't need to block fps so they have no frame lag but they can have tearing if they don't use gsync, correct?
17) Yeah but when? Do you reccomend them if there is "no tearing without gsync"?

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jorimt
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Re: gsync questions

Post by jorimt » 02 Sep 2018, 17:26

Abiak, you don't seem to even understand the basics, but are then asking very advanced questions. We are going in circles at this point, but I will try again...
3.2.1) Let's suppose highest avaible doesn't work and the game has a refresh rate of 60Hz, I should notice it cause the vsync will lock fps at 60, correct?
That almost never happens. 99% of games work with "Highest Available." Keep it set to "Highest Available."
3.2.2) Just to be sure: display refresh rate = desktop refresh rate?
In that scenario, yes.
8) I'm confused: before you said "RTSS framerate cap has LESS input lag than an uncapped framerate within the refresh rate." and then "RTSS off will always have less lag than any other scenario".
Because both are true, but you don't understand enough of the basics to know it. It's relative to what scenarios we are talking about (G-SYNC on + V-SYNC on + RTSS on vs G-SYNC off + V-SYNC off + RTSS off, etc), and if you didn't understand my article, you won't understand my answer here.

If you have a G-SYNC monitor, and you want to use G-SYNC, as long as you use the recommended settings here, everything will work the way it is suppose to:
https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/14/
13.1) With "when the framerate is above the FPS limit" do you mean when I see 141 fps?
RTSS is only active when the framerate is at the limit you set. Whenever the framerate drops below that limit, the RTSS framerate limit isn't active at all.
13.2) When I have 141 fps there is 1 frame lag, bad PC don't need to block fps so they have no frame lag but they can have tearing if they don't use gsync, correct?
What does that have to do with G-SYNC?
17) Yeah but when? Do you reccomend them if there is "no tearing without gsync"?
What do you mean "when?" They have nothing to do with G-SYNC, don't use them with G-SYNC, you can't use them with G-SYNC. I'm not sure what else to say.

I think you need to specify what type of syncing method you want to use, because my answers will entirely depend on it.

Do you have a G-SYNC monitor? Do you want to use G-SYNC? If not, I need to know what you do have, and what you do want to use. It's all relative.
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

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jorimt
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Re: gsync questions

Post by jorimt » 02 Sep 2018, 23:19

Abiak, seeing as our language barrier has proven too great (especially with this being a very complex subject), I will attempt to make this as simple as possible for you.

I will list "MOST" to "LEAST" input lag scenarios below for you. Hopefully that will make it clearer for you:

1. G-SYNC off + V-SYNC on + RTSS off + constant FPS above refresh rate = MOST input lag
2. G-SYNC on + V-SYNC on + RTSS off + constant FPS above refresh rate = SAME input lag as #1 above
3. G-SYNC off + V-SYNC on + RTSS -2 FPS limit + constant FPS above refresh rate = LESS input lag than #1 & #2 above
4. G-SYNC on + V-SYNC on + RTSS -2 FPS limit + constant FPS above refresh rate = LESS input lag than #3 above
5. G-SYNC on + V-SYNC off + RTSS -2 FPS limit + constant FPS above refresh rate = SLIGHTLY LESS input lag than #4 above (but can sometimes tear)
6. G-SYNC off + V-SYNC off + RTSS off + constant FPS above refresh rate = LEAST input lag when compared to #1 through #5 above, but will always tear
7. G-SYNC on + V-SYNC off + RTSS off + constant FPS above refresh rate = SAME input lag as #6 above, since G-SYNC disables outside its range, and will also always tear

Now for FPS inside the refresh rate, again from "MOST" to "LEAST" input lag:

1. G-SYNC off + V-SYNC on + RTSS off + FPS inside refresh rate = MOST input lag
2. G-SYNC off + V-SYNC on + RTSS -2 FPS limit + FPS inside refresh rate = SAME input lag as #1 above
3. G-SYNC on + V-SYNC on + RTSS off + FPS inside refresh rate = LESS input lag than #1 & #2 above
4. G-SYNC on + V-SYNC on + RTSS -2 FPS limit + FPS inside refresh rate = SAME input lag as #3 above
5. G-SYNC on + V-SYNC off + RTSS -2 FPS limit + FPS inside refresh rate = SLIGHTLY LESS input lag than #4 above (but can sometimes tear)
6. G-SYNC off + V-SYNC off + RTSS off + FPS inside refresh rate = LEAST input lag when compared to #1 through #5 above, but will always tear

Now for framerate limiters, again from "MOST" to "LEAST" input lag (this applies to all the above scenarios, just replace "RTSS" with "Nvidia Inspector" or "in-game"):

1. Nvidia Inspector -2 FPS limit = MOST input lag
2. RTSS -2 FPS limit = LESS input lag than #2 above
3. in-game -2 FPS limit = LEAST input lag when compared to #1 & #2 above
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Display: Acer Predator XB271HU OS: Windows 10 Pro MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

Abiak
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Re: gsync questions

Post by Abiak » 03 Sep 2018, 06:11

3.2.1) I'm using highest avaible but I want to know if what I said is correct.
3.2.2) Are they 2 different things?

8) "RTSS framerate cap has LESS input lag than an uncapped framerate within the refresh rate." then #3 and #4 you said they are the same, with the first sentence did you mean with menus?

13.1) If I block fps at 141, when I see 136 137 138 139 140 fps, RTSS isn't active, correct?

13.2) My limit with RTSS = 141 fps. I play constant 141 fps, in this case there is 1 frame lag, correct? What I meant is, bad PC don't need RTSS so they have no frame lag, this is a little "advantage". Your sentences:
"4. G-SYNC on + V-SYNC on + RTSS -2 FPS limit + constant FPS above refresh rate = LESS input lag than #3 above" versus "3. G-SYNC on + V-SYNC on + RTSS off + FPS inside refresh rate = LESS input lag than #1 & #2 above".

17) I have a g-sync monitor and I know I can't use ULMB and fixed refresh with g-sync. Just tell me an example of when you use ULMB and fixed refresh.

18.1 Is game-console fps limit the same as menu? I.e. in CSGO you can block fps only with console and it's annoying because you have to block at every restart.
Edit:
18.2 (related with question 13.1) in CSGO I blocked fps at 141 but they actually never reach 141, they are always 135-139, if I use RTSS instead of the console there should be no lag cause they don't reach 141, correct?

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RealNC
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Re: gsync questions

Post by RealNC » 03 Sep 2018, 06:29

Abiak wrote:I'm using highest avaible but I want to know if what I said is correct.
The monitor's OSD will tell you what refresh rate it's currently running.

The desktop refresh rate is independent from the refresh rate fullscreen games use, in most cases. Some games try to use the desktop refresh rate.

Use whatever method works best for you to force the game to use 144Hz. I use 120Hz for the desktop, but want 165Hz in games. So I make sure "preferred refresh rate" is set to "highest available." I have never seen a game where this doesn't work. I've seen some games where they go to 60Hz if I alt+tab, or change resolution without restarting the game (Wolfenstein 2.) But these are bugs. Nothing you can do about it.
My limit with RTSS = 141 fps. I play constant 141 fps, in this case there is 1 frame lag, correct?
There is no lag. RTSS does not add lag. It reduces lag slightly in many games.
What I meant is, bad PC don't need RTSS so they have no frame lag, this is a little "advantage".
No. In many games, if your FPS is not high enough to reach the RTSS cap, then you get slightly more lag. Again: RTSS reduces lag slightly. If your PC is fast enough to always reach the RTSS cap, you have an advantage.

I have a g-sync monitor and I know I can't use ULMB and fixed refresh with g-sync. Just tell me an example of when you use ULMB and fixed refresh.
This is personal preference. If you like ULMB more than you like G-Sync, then use ULMB.
Is game-console fps limit the same as menu? I.e. in CSGO you can block fps only with console and it's annoying because you have to block at every restart.
You can put "fps_max 141" in CS:GOs autoexec.cfg file to have it automatically applied on every game start. There are guides on the internet on how to edit the autoexec.cfg file.

If the game has a frame limiter, it's better than RTSS. For example, fps_max in CS:GO reduces input lag more than RTSS. Don't use RTSS in that case. Use RTSS for games that do not have an FPS limit.
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jorimt
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Re: gsync questions

Post by jorimt » 03 Sep 2018, 08:23

3.2.1) I'm using highest avaible but I want to know if what I said is correct.
3.2.2) Are they 2 different things?
I give up answering these.
8) "RTSS framerate cap has LESS input lag than an uncapped framerate within the refresh rate." then #3 and #4 you said they are the same, with the first sentence did you mean with menus?
This has nothing to do with G-SYNC. It has to do with pre-rendered frames, and if I try to explain that, you'll be even more confused. Just refer to the input lag list I made you in my last post.
13.1) If I block fps at 141, when I see 136 137 138 139 140 fps, RTSS isn't active, correct?
I've said YES to this more times now than I can count, how many more times do I have to say YES? YES.
13.2) My limit with RTSS = 141 fps. I play constant 141 fps, in this case there is 1 frame lag, correct? What I meant is, bad PC don't need RTSS so they have no frame lag, this is a little "advantage". Your sentences:
"4. G-SYNC on + V-SYNC on + RTSS -2 FPS limit + constant FPS above refresh rate = LESS input lag than #3 above" versus "3. G-SYNC on + V-SYNC on + RTSS off + FPS inside refresh rate = LESS input lag than #1 & #2 above".
No Abiak, it isn't even a "little advantage." Again, it has to do with how RTSS and pre-rendered frames work. RTSS has NO MORE lag than bad PC with no RTSS. RTSS only has MORE lag than IN-GAME FPS LIMIT.
17) I have a g-sync monitor and I know I can't use ULMB and fixed refresh with g-sync. Just tell me an example of when you use ULMB and fixed refresh.
It has nothing to do with my article, and you are asking the author of a G-SYNC article to tell you about another subject entirely. "ULMB" is strobing. "Fixed Refresh Rate" is the opposite of G-SYNC, which is a "Variable Refresh Rate." It just means G-SYNC is off.

I'm not a strobing expert, so you will have to ask someone else about ULMB.
18.1 Is game-console fps limit the same as menu? I.e. in CSGO you can block fps only with console and it's annoying because you have to block at every restart.
Use +fps_max 141 in the Steam "Launch Options" for the game, or the method RealNC described. Either will make it so you don't have to input it every time.
18.2 (related with question 13.1) in CSGO I blocked fps at 141 but they actually never reach 141, they are always 135-139, if I use RTSS instead of the console there should be no lag cause they don't reach 141, correct?
CSGO FPS limiter isn't as accurate as RTSS limiter, that is why you see 135-139 instead of 141. But you won't be able to tell the difference between 135-139 and 141 FPS while playing the game, trust me. And CSGO FPS limiter still has less lag than RTSS, but you can use RTSS instead if you want.
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Abiak
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Re: gsync questions

Post by Abiak » 03 Sep 2018, 11:33

Thank you guys, last 3 questions:
3.2.2. I'm sorry but "In that scenario" confused me.
In windows 10 advanced display options I see 143Hz, is that a bug?
Actually I found a game where nvidia's v-sync doesn't work, should I use game's one?

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Re: gsync questions

Post by RealNC » 03 Sep 2018, 11:46

Abiak wrote:In windows 10 advanced display options I see 143Hz, is that a bug?
No. That's normal. Windows will sometimes disregard the actual refresh rate. 144Hz is on many monitors not exactly 144.0Hz, but something like 143.9Hz. Windows will just say 143 in that case. It's perfectly normal.
Actually I found a game where nvidia's v-sync doesn't work, should I use game's one?
In the rare case where nvidia's vsync doesn't work, then yes, in-game vsync is the only option.

However, make sure you run the game in exclusive fullscreen mode. NVidia's vsync not working is sometimes a sign that the game is running in borderless mode instead of exclusive fullscreen.
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