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Re: How do I eliminate frametime spikes from FPS drops (Gsyn

Posted: 10 Dec 2018, 23:45
by Chief Blur Buster
Modin wrote:Doesn't 90 fps look stuttery after you get used to looking at a game at 141 fps for a while ? I keep hearing people say that you can't go back to 60 after having experienced 120+.

By the way, and this may be too far off-topic, but doesn't Skyrim have broken physics above 60 fps ?
<Context Rescue>

Stuttering in RealNC's context refers to the erratic stutter. Sometimes called "judder" in home theater forums like AVSFORUMS. VRR displays fixes the visibility of this. Random framerates now stay in sync with random refresh rates, every refresh cycle, so it's perfectly smooth like http://www.testufo.com/vrr#framerate=slowrandom ... fluctuating framerates becomes nearly invisible!

Stuttering in Modin's context refers to the low-framerate regular stutter that you easily see in the bottom UFOs at http://www.testufo.com#count=6 .... VRR displays can't fix low-framerate regular stutter (e.g. 30fps), moving objects still look like they're vibrating. VRR can still erase the framerate-change stutter, there's no erratic/spontaneous stutter transition between 30fps->31fps with VRR (like you will see without VRR)

</Context Rescue>

Detection of edge vibration (regular stutter) roughly corresponds to an individual flicker-fusion threshold. On a fast 1ms TN 240Hz display, I can see edge-vibration at ~80Hz-100Hz if I look hard. More easily than 30fps edge-vibration on an old 33ms LCD. Response time will slightly fudge-around how easily edge-vibration is detected. It's like a guitar string. Low frequencies vibrate visibly, while high frequencies simply blends into a blur. That's why 30fps VRR still looks regular-stuttery while 200fps VRR looks smooth. For a visual animation of this on non-VRR displays, see http://www.testufo.com/vrr .... Motion on different displays will stop edge-vibrating above a specific framerate depending on display (response) and human flicker-detection threshold. As a rule of thumb, the ability to detect edge-vibration in moving objects of perfectly smooth "X fps" Sometimes regular stutter is not even called "stutter", but it's easy to get confused buy this terminology/context -- is somewhere in the muddy zone of about 40Hz-100Hz+, display-dependant and human-dependant. More excellent reading on "regular-stutters (of low Hz) are caused by the same thing as sample-hold motion blur (of high Hz)" (the guitar string explanation) can be found in the Blur Busters Law And The Amazing Journey To Future 1000Hz Displays. It's a trait more easily understood when watching a framerate-ramping animation on a VRR display.

Re: How do I eliminate frametime spikes from FPS drops (Gsyn

Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 01:46
by RealNC
Modin wrote:I see. Pc gaming is a rabbit hole isn't it ? There's always something to upgrade, always a higher framerate to chase after.
Perhaps. But it becomes second nature after a while though. Like dialing in the air conditioner to the exact value that feels the most comfortable :mrgreen:
Doesn't 90 fps look stuttery after you get used to looking at a game at 141 fps for a while ? I keep hearing people say that you can't go back to 60 after having experienced 120+.
90FPS is the "magic number" for me. It is not stuttery. But the difference is that it has more motion blur than 120 or 144. But it is not stuttery at all to me. If I can play a game at 90FPS g-sync, I actually am perfectly happy. Anything higher is just the cherry on top if I can get it :)

Switching from 90FPS to 60FPS is an extremely jarring change. The stuttery nature of 60FPS is immediately obvious. You can still get used to it again after 15 minutes or so. If you then go back to 90FPS after that, it again feels like a veil has been lifted from your eyes.
By the way, and this may be too far off-topic, but doesn't Skyrim have broken physics above 60 fps ?
It does. But Special Edition has a tweak you can add to Skyrim.ini where you can configure the physics to target a custom frame rate. For 90FPS, I use:

Code: Select all

[HAVOK]
fMaxTime=0.0111023
This can be tested by jumping on one of those carts that usually have cabbages in them. Normally, if you don't use the tweak, you get very high damage while trying to walk on the cart. It also happens when you walk on bones. At 90FPS, you can die in like 2 seconds. With this tweak, you either take no damage, or take the same damage as with 60FPS, because the physics are slowed down just right to match the higher FPS.

See: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/c ... or_skyrim/

Because of OCD, I spent like an hour trying to get the number that gives the most accurate result (which for me is 0.0111023) doing the cabbage cart test :P

Re: How do I eliminate frametime spikes from FPS drops (Gsync)

Posted: 09 Dec 2020, 16:47
by Rebeka
Hey everyone,

For quite some time i've had issues with stuttering in almost every game i own. Some examples: The witcher 3, Ghost Recon breakpoint/ wildlands, AC origins/Odyssey, Code Vein, Destiny 2, and so on. The stutters aren't actually FPS drops but frametime spikes.

My PC specs:
-CPU: 9900ks

-CPU-Cooler: NZXT X72 Kraken (base fans swapped for noctua fans)

-MB: Z390 Aorus Master (bios F11c)

-GPU: RTX 2080 Ti Asus Strix OC (factory overclocked)

-RAM: G-skill Trident Z F4-3200C14-8GTZR, 32 gigs 4x8 gb (XMP is on, same with xmp off)

-M.2 Drives: 2x 970 PRO 1 Tb NVME drives (OS and games are installed on them)

-SSD: 860 EVO 1 Tb

-PSU: Corsair hx1000i (standard cables replaced by Cablemod Pro kit (full))

-Case: Corsair 750D Airflow

-Monitors: 1x Asus pg27Q 144 hz G-sync and 1x Acer XB271hu 144 hz G-Sync

-OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bit (build 1909).

Some things i already did:
- Clean instal windows 10 (alot of times)
- Using DDU to clean out drivers and instal them again with no geforce experience
- Using High powerplan in windows power setting
- Turned of hibernation
- Disabled C-states
- XMP on/off (doesn't do anything)
- Prefer Maximum performance in nvidia control panel
- Turning G-Sync off/on (no effect)
- Turning V-sync on/off in nvidia controlpanel (no effect)
- Updated all drivers for everything (gpu, chipset driver for cpy, lan drivers, audio drivers)
- Temperatures are all within safe temps: GPU max temp is 68°C and CPU max temp is 58°C
- Memtest86 test on the ram 3 times for 6 hours each and came back with 0 errors
- bios flashback to f9 does nothing for me (suggestion by u/factioncustom because it fixed stuttering for him)

I did run userbenchmark but that didn't show any problems:
UserBenchmarks: Game 150%, Desk 178%, Work 164%
CPU: Intel Core i9-9900K - 105.1%
GPU: Nvidia RTX 2080-Ti - 183.4%
SSD: Samsung 970 Pro NVMe PCIe M.2 1TB - 383.6%
SSD: Samsung 970 Pro NVMe PCIe M.2 1TB - 412.7%
SSD: Samsung 860 Evo 1TB - 128.8%
RAM: G.SKILL F4 DDR4 3200 C14 4x8GB - 107%
MBD: Gigabyte Z390 AORUS MASTER

I'm pretty desperate for some help, i can't for the life of me find the problem. I appriciate any help you can provide me.

Thank you all in advance for your time and wisdom.

Re: How do I eliminate frametime spikes from FPS drops (Gsync)

Posted: 12 Dec 2020, 19:29
by RealNC
Rebeka wrote:
09 Dec 2020, 16:47
Some things i already did:
Your list of things you tried doesn't mention g-sync + frame limiting, which is the TLDR of this thread. Another issue can arise when using two monitors.

So try this: disconnect your secondary monitor. Reboot. Make sure the game uses 144Hz + gsync (check the monitor's OSD) and apply an FPS limit of 140FPS (or 120FPS.) For Witcher 3, this fixes the frame pacing issue for me. You can use RTSS to limit the FPS, but usually in-game limiters provide an input lag reduction so I prefer those. For Witcher 3, you can set a custom FPS limit by editing the file "user.settings" (it's in the "Documents\The Witcher 3" folder.) Search for "LimitFPS" in that file and change it to the FPS limit you want. For example:

LimitFPS=120

After that, do NOT use the in-game FPS slider or it will change the FPS limit again (the in-game slider does not support fine-grained limits.)

Re: How do I eliminate frametime spikes from FPS drops (Gsync)

Posted: 27 Dec 2020, 02:58
by fluidz
Rebeka wrote:
09 Dec 2020, 16:47
Hey everyone,

For quite some time i've had issues with stuttering in almost every game i own. Some examples: The witcher 3, Ghost Recon breakpoint/ wildlands, AC origins/Odyssey, Code Vein, Destiny 2, and so on. The stutters aren't actually FPS drops but frametime spikes.

My PC specs:
-CPU: 9900ks

-CPU-Cooler: NZXT X72 Kraken (base fans swapped for noctua fans)

-MB: Z390 Aorus Master (bios F11c)

-GPU: RTX 2080 Ti Asus Strix OC (factory overclocked)

-RAM: G-skill Trident Z F4-3200C14-8GTZR, 32 gigs 4x8 gb (XMP is on, same with xmp off)

-M.2 Drives: 2x 970 PRO 1 Tb NVME drives (OS and games are installed on them)

-SSD: 860 EVO 1 Tb

-PSU: Corsair hx1000i (standard cables replaced by Cablemod Pro kit (full))

-Case: Corsair 750D Airflow

-Monitors: 1x Asus pg27Q 144 hz G-sync and 1x Acer XB271hu 144 hz G-Sync

-OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bit (build 1909).

Some things i already did:
- Clean instal windows 10 (alot of times)
- Using DDU to clean out drivers and instal them again with no geforce experience
- Using High powerplan in windows power setting
- Turned of hibernation
- Disabled C-states
- XMP on/off (doesn't do anything)
- Prefer Maximum performance in nvidia control panel
- Turning G-Sync off/on (no effect)
- Turning V-sync on/off in nvidia controlpanel (no effect)
- Updated all drivers for everything (gpu, chipset driver for cpy, lan drivers, audio drivers)
- Temperatures are all within safe temps: GPU max temp is 68°C and CPU max temp is 58°C
- Memtest86 test on the ram 3 times for 6 hours each and came back with 0 errors
- bios flashback to f9 does nothing for me (suggestion by u/factioncustom because it fixed stuttering for him)

I did run userbenchmark but that didn't show any problems:
UserBenchmarks: Game 150%, Desk 178%, Work 164%
CPU: Intel Core i9-9900K - 105.1%
GPU: Nvidia RTX 2080-Ti - 183.4%
SSD: Samsung 970 Pro NVMe PCIe M.2 1TB - 383.6%
SSD: Samsung 970 Pro NVMe PCIe M.2 1TB - 412.7%
SSD: Samsung 860 Evo 1TB - 128.8%
RAM: G.SKILL F4 DDR4 3200 C14 4x8GB - 107%
MBD: Gigabyte Z390 AORUS MASTER

I'm pretty desperate for some help, i can't for the life of me find the problem. I appriciate any help you can provide me.

Thank you all in advance for your time and wisdom.
Same issue here, and i have tried all the steps you have including reinstalling windows many times and i still get small screen freezes in games and benchmarks when the framerate fluctuates even a slight amount (20fps). Gsync enabled makes these hitching appear alot worst and the screen appears to freeze for half a second. I have no crashing in stress tests either. The difference between me and you is I am only using one Gsync monitor - many people say this issue can stem from using 2 monitors. Userbenchmark isn't showing any issues for me either.

Ryzen 3700x + 2080ti + 144hz gsync monitor. Do you get these same random hitches in Heaven and Unigine valley? I see random hitching when the framerate fluctuates like 20fps+ with Gsync turned on.

Dxdiag report - https://pastebin.com/yZaVAPRc

Re: How do I eliminate frametime spikes from FPS drops (Gsync)

Posted: 27 Dec 2020, 10:28
by RealNC
fluidz wrote:
27 Dec 2020, 02:58
i still get small screen freezes in games and benchmarks when the framerate fluctuates even a slight amount (20fps). Gsync enabled makes these hitching appear alot worst and the screen appears to freeze for half a second.
Use gsync ON and force vsync OFF. See if that helps.

See: https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopi ... 623#p35889

Re: How do I eliminate frametime spikes from FPS drops (Gsync)

Posted: 28 Dec 2020, 05:52
by fluidz
RealNC wrote:
27 Dec 2020, 10:28
fluidz wrote:
27 Dec 2020, 02:58
i still get small screen freezes in games and benchmarks when the framerate fluctuates even a slight amount (20fps). Gsync enabled makes these hitching appear alot worst and the screen appears to freeze for half a second.
Use gsync ON and force vsync OFF. See if that helps.

See: https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopi ... 623#p35889
Thanks for the suggestion, in the case of Heaven Benchmark, Vsync is forced off, Gsync is on, yet the screen freezes for short bursts sometimes when the scene changes and there is a sudden fluctuation in framerate. For example 100fps -> 200+fps = half a second stutter. I noticed the same thing sometimes happens in Unigine Valley (Vsync off, gsync on). This happens when using a single 144hz monitor (Acer xb271hu).