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G-SYNC and mouse cursor

Talk about NVIDIA G-SYNC, a variable refresh rate (VRR) technology. G-SYNC eliminates stutters, tearing, and reduces input lag. List of G-SYNC Monitors.

Re: G-SYNC and mouse cursor

Postby TTT » 19 Jul 2019, 10:53

RealNC wrote:
TTT wrote:So Gsync off 240hz capped to 100fps, is getting the same scanouts and everything as Gsync on 240hz capped to 100fps, but Gsync on adds a bit of input lag at the lower frames from looking at the comparison charts.

Which of the charts?


https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync ... ettings/6/
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Re: G-SYNC and mouse cursor

Postby RealNC » 19 Jul 2019, 11:05

I don't see it. Seems to have no added lag:

https://www.blurbusters.com/wp-content/ ... -240Hz.png

I guess you were looking at the 60Hz g-sync chart? Don't use 60Hz with g-sync. Makes no sense to begin with :-)
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Re: G-SYNC and mouse cursor

Postby TTT » 19 Jul 2019, 11:20

RealNC wrote:I don't see it. Seems to have no added lag:

https://www.blurbusters.com/wp-content/ ... -240Hz.png

I guess you were looking at the 60Hz g-sync chart? Don't use 60Hz with g-sync. Makes no sense to begin with :-)


Ah so the charts are locked refresh on each one!

So the amount of lag Gsync will give with the fps cap down to like 100-120 with the screen at 240hz in NVP is the same as it is at 238?

To be honest I don't game that much but ever since I got this screen I set it up exactly as the guides say but it makes it feel way less responsive, especially in twitchy quick FPS games I can't fine aim at all.

Maybe its just me but I do remember seeing a few threads somewhere with other people saying at lower fps caps this monitor(XB252Q) feels laggier and worse than a 144hz does at the same levels. My other monitor is a 60hz Benq though so I can't really compare.
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Re: G-SYNC and mouse cursor

Postby RealNC » 19 Jul 2019, 11:28

TTT wrote:So the amount of lag Gsync will give with the fps cap down to like 100-120 with the screen at 240hz in NVP is the same as it is at 238?

Of course not. 100FPS naturally has more input lag that 200FPS. But 240Hz g-sync at 100FPS will give you better input lag than 100Hz at 100FPS. G-Sync removes vsync lag. It cannot remove lower vs higher FPS lag.

To be honest I don't game that much but ever since I got this screen I set it up exactly as the guides say but it makes it feel way less responsive, especially in twitchy quick FPS games I can't fine aim at all.

Depends on what you compare it with. If you compare 100FPS capped g-sync vs 100FPS capped non-gsync, there should be no difference. But if you're comparing it to uncapped FPS, then it's going to have higher lag, obviously.
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Re: G-SYNC and mouse cursor

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 19 Jul 2019, 11:49

Correct.

The confusion between frequency and duration.

scanout frequency = the refresh rate

scanout interval = the amount of time per refresh cycle (can be a number less than 1/Hz)

This is what GSYNC 100fps at 144Hz looks like.

Image

(Essentially a graphed representation of high speed video of scanout latency -- but for a 100fps at 144Hz GSYNC)

scanout frequency = 100 times a second (100Hz refresh rate)
scanout duration = 1/144sec (the scanout velocity of 144Hz even though we're only doing 100Hz).
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Re: G-SYNC and mouse cursor

Postby TTT » 19 Jul 2019, 12:06

Thanks all, I'm learning. :lol:
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Re: G-SYNC and mouse cursor

Postby jorimt » 19 Jul 2019, 17:51

^ Ain't it fun?

TTT wrote:Ah yea you are just talking about refresh, but still Jor said:

"With VRR, if the framerate is 40, for instance, the scanout is repeating 40 times per second (at least until you get to minimum refresh/LFC, where frame doubling occurs; the starting point of which varies per VRR method and/or panel tolerance)."

This is what I am referring to.

While it looks like the Chief and RealNC have cleared most of it up, for the record, yes, when I said "scanout repetition," I was referring to the amount of times the scanout cycle was being repeated per second.

G-SYNC can alter the repetition of these individual cycles per second, but it can't change the duration of each cycle, so if you're at 240Hz, it's still scanning in at 4.2ms per with G-SYNC, etc, regardless of framerate.

Also, yes, in those charts, if it says "60Hz," that means I physically changed the max refresh rate in the control panel before testing, so the the lower max refresh rate, the slower scanout, and the slower the scanout, the more input lag there is at the same framerate when compared to higher max refresh rates with G-SYNC.
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Re: G-SYNC and mouse cursor

Postby technick » 28 Jul 2019, 00:08

I'm glad to see this topic already here because I've been having an issue with gsync and haven't been able to find any info about it outside of this thread!

I recently picked up a Dell 144Hz freesync display and enabled gsync. Followed the 101 guide and enabled RTSS for a 140Hz cap, enabled vsync ON in NCP, and the pendulum demo is clearly syncing. However I feel gsync is not working in quite a few games I've wanted to play with gsync, and it comes down to the mouse movement. Many PC games I play are mouse based. The Sims 4, Tropico 6, Cities Skylines, Anno 1800 just to name a few. I have a GTX1080 so these games generally run with high refresh rates, but like all sim games, will eventually fall down around 50-80FPS once you have something built up - this is why I was looking forward to a VRR display. They start out so smooth but quickly devolve into a stuttery mess regardless of hardware horsepower.

I've noticed these games all don't seem to be benefiting from gsync enabled, even though the gsync indicator says it's active. I felt that the image was just as stuttery in gsync mode when panning the camera around as it is without gsync. (and I have vsync off in all games) What finally tipped me off was that the mouse cursor was still clearly 144Hz, even when I purposely tanked my framerate to 50FPS. RealNC confirmed the obvious here - if the monitor refresh rate was properly changing then the mouse cursor movement should be changing along with it! The fact that the cursor is staying silky smooth regardless of framerate in the game tells me that the refresh rate isn't syncing to the game FPS, and perhaps instead syncing to the UI FPS which is always the refresh rate of the monitor?

Some other games like Killing Floor 2 are very clearly benefiting from gsync during gameplay, where the framerate is all over the place between 80-120FPS yet the on screen image is remaining consistently smooth (and it's an amazing sight!) and in this game, indeed I can visually see the mouse cursor fluidity being affected along with game frame rate.

I'm absolutely willing to trade the silky smooth mouse cursor for a consistent image in game, but I can't seem to combine the two. Is there something I'm missing, or is this simply how some games operate and are essentially incompatible with gsync/freesync as a result? Is there some known method or tool I can run that'll force gsync and/or the game to synchronize with the framerate of the actual game world, rather than the framerate of what appears to be some kind of separated UI layer? Because as it stands, it looks like this entire strategy/sim genre receives no fluidity benefit with variable refresh rates and ends up looking identical to fixed refresh rate performance.
Last edited by technick on 28 Jul 2019, 03:14, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: G-SYNC and mouse cursor

Postby RealNC » 28 Jul 2019, 00:52

(Never mind. I misread your post. I missed the part where you mention your mouse cursor.)
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Re: G-SYNC and mouse cursor

Postby TTT » 30 Jul 2019, 13:00

technick wrote:I'm glad to see this topic already here because I've been having an issue with gsync and haven't been able to find any info about it outside of this thread!

I recently picked up a Dell 144Hz freesync display and enabled gsync. Followed the 101 guide and enabled RTSS for a 140Hz cap, enabled vsync ON in NCP, and the pendulum demo is clearly syncing. However I feel gsync is not working in quite a few games I've wanted to play with gsync, and it comes down to the mouse movement. Many PC games I play are mouse based. The Sims 4, Tropico 6, Cities Skylines, Anno 1800 just to name a few. I have a GTX1080 so these games generally run with high refresh rates, but like all sim games, will eventually fall down around 50-80FPS once you have something built up - this is why I was looking forward to a VRR display. They start out so smooth but quickly devolve into a stuttery mess regardless of hardware horsepower.

I've noticed these games all don't seem to be benefiting from gsync enabled, even though the gsync indicator says it's active. I felt that the image was just as stuttery in gsync mode when panning the camera around as it is without gsync. (and I have vsync off in all games) What finally tipped me off was that the mouse cursor was still clearly 144Hz, even when I purposely tanked my framerate to 50FPS. RealNC confirmed the obvious here - if the monitor refresh rate was properly changing then the mouse cursor movement should be changing along with it! The fact that the cursor is staying silky smooth regardless of framerate in the game tells me that the refresh rate isn't syncing to the game FPS, and perhaps instead syncing to the UI FPS which is always the refresh rate of the monitor?

Some other games like Killing Floor 2 are very clearly benefiting from gsync during gameplay, where the framerate is all over the place between 80-120FPS yet the on screen image is remaining consistently smooth (and it's an amazing sight!) and in this game, indeed I can visually see the mouse cursor fluidity being affected along with game frame rate.

I'm absolutely willing to trade the silky smooth mouse cursor for a consistent image in game, but I can't seem to combine the two. Is there something I'm missing, or is this simply how some games operate and are essentially incompatible with gsync/freesync as a result? Is there some known method or tool I can run that'll force gsync and/or the game to synchronize with the framerate of the actual game world, rather than the framerate of what appears to be some kind of separated UI layer? Because as it stands, it looks like this entire strategy/sim genre receives no fluidity benefit with variable refresh rates and ends up looking identical to fixed refresh rate performance.


Have you tried putting the NCP Vsync setting to use 3D application and turn on Vsync in game?
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